Matrix Games Forums

So unless you plan to start playing against humans right from the start, stay away from mods.

Kull, what part of this categorical statement being misleading is not registering with you?

I posted what I did to try and prevent MarkShot (whom I have a prior history with as playtesters for Panther games) from being MISLED into thinking he should avoid all mods.

Not really sure why you have gotten your panties in such a tight wad.
Forgive me for thinking you were a big enough boy not to.

Not many of us here can claim to belong to the snowflake generation, so I'm finding it incredible that so many of us are behaving like we do.

Everyone here needs to toughen up that thin skin a bit.

Erik,

The exception I take with what was done to Alfred, was in how it was done. Appearances matter.
You can make all the after the fact protestations you want that no exploitation of insider access to power, or that no favoritism was in play, but it is falling, and will continue to fall, on deaf ears.

The appearance of insider exploitation and favoritism has already cost you your credibility.

It's actually kind of entertaining watching you struggle to close Pandora's box after you so willfully opened it.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

So unless you plan to start playing against humans right from the start, stay away from mods.

Kull, what part of this categorical statement being misleading is not registering with you?

I posted what I did to try and prevent MarkShot (whom I have a prior history with as playtesters for Panther games) from being MISLED into thinking he should avoid all mods.

Not really sure why you have gotten your panties in such a tight wad.
Forgive me for thinking you were a big enough boy not to.

Not many of us here can claim to belong to the snowflake generation, so I'm finding it incredible that so many of us are behaving like we do.

Everyone here needs to toughen up that thin skin a bit.

So rather than address your baseless and insulting post, you deflect yet again? It's amazing really. Even though I've proven categorically that there was no basis for your original insult, rather than apologize you doubled down by adding additional insults. No further comment from me is necessary.

Try taking a hard look in the mirror.

I'll ask again. What part of the quoted statement serving to mislead him into avoiding all mods don't you want to admit?

My post wasn't baseless and it wasn't insulting.

You simply CHOSE to be offended.

Just like you are choosing to continue to behave like a child.

One can only hope the content of this post will suffice to get me consigned to purgatory.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Not really sure why you have gotten your panties in such a tight wad.
Forgive me for thinking you were a big enough boy not to.

Not many of us here can claim to belong to the snowflake generation, so I'm finding it incredible that so many of us are behaving like we do.

Everyone here needs to toughen up that thin skin a bit.

Try taking a hard look in the mirror.

I'll ask again. What part of the quoted statement serving to mislead him into avoiding all mods don't you want to admit?

My post wasn't baseless and it wasn't insulting.

You simply CHOSE to be offended.

Just like you are choosing to continue to behave like a child.

One can only hope the content of this post will suffice to get me consigned to purgatory.

It's easy to justify your own lack of civility by claiming that everyone else needs a thicker skin.

Ok, you've got an official warning. Keep it up and you'll have a vacation from the forum to think things over as well.

The exception I take with what was done to Alfred, was in how it was done. Appearances matter.

What bothered you about the appearance?

You can make all the after the fact protestations you want that no exploitation of insider access to power, or that no favoritism was in play, but it is falling, and will continue to fall, on deaf ears.

The appearance of insider exploitation and favoritism has already cost you your credibility.

It's actually kind of entertaining watching you struggle to close Pandora's box after you so willfully opened it.

I'm not responsible for what Mark said or implied regarding any favoritism. I can only state that he does not have any special knowledge or special position. He's been a helpful tester and a good community member, but he has no more claim on me or Matrix than any other helpful tester or good community member. I would have taken the same moderation action, in the same way, regardless of whether Mark was involved or not. The issue here was Alfred's behavior, not who reported Alfred's behavior.

I should add that it was also some of Alfred's behavior in other threads dealing with other new players that really convinced me that he was generally way over the line and had been for a while and that this had nothing to do with anything specifically personal between him and Mark.

You can of course choose not to believe me and think that I am struggling to close some kind of Pandora's box. I'm really just trying to keep some peace in the forum and avoid more division and strife in the community, despite quite a few strong opinions and personalities being involved.

Regards,

- Erik

No offense meant, but maybe some people need to go lightly dressed into a walk in cooler or a freezer . . . [X(]

I have done that . . . [:@]

That said, I also do need thicker skin to prevent all of the cat and kitten claw marks . . .

That said, please keep this civil. Unless you actually get into a physical fight and have a video taken of it, then it could be sold on something like a pay per view status . . . [:D]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
That said, please keep this civil. Unless you actually get into a physical fight and have a video taken of it, then it could be sold on something like a pay per view status . . . [:D]

Yup let Kull fight Hans in WITP-AE shirts and then send it to Matrix, could be used as promo for the game. Drama often enough draws people in... that said Hans should be given be a pause he (and Alfred of course) would be my main candidate as for "strange" behaviour here [:(]
But perhaps these 2 are adults and realize their errors [:)]

Erik,

Thank you for showing me clearly that all that is needed to get you to come rushing to the rescue is a fabricated claim of victimhood.

Personally, I thought Kull should try selling his fabricated sense of victimhood to someone gullible enough to buy it.

Please state the terms of the violation I am being warned for. Am I being warned for my refusal to apologize for a perceived slight?

The facts don't care about his feelings and frankly, neither do I.

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
That said, please keep this civil. Unless you actually get into a physical fight and have a video taken of it, then it could be sold on something like a pay per view status . . . [:D]

Yup let Kull fight Hans in WITP-AE shirts and then send it to Matrix, could be used as promo for the game. Drama often enough draws people in... that said Hans should be given be a pause he (and Alfred sometimes too) would be my main candidate as for "strange" behaviour here [:(]
But perhaps these 2 are adults and realize their errors [:)]

Take care with the insults.

Others can play the victim card as well.

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Thank you for showing me clearly that all that is needed to get you to come rushing to the rescue is a fabricated claim of victimhood.

Personally, I thought Kull should try selling his fabricated sense of victimhood to someone gullible enough to buy it.

Not really sure why you have gotten your panties in such a tight wad.
Forgive me for thinking you were a big enough boy not to.

Just like you are choosing to continue to behave like a child.

Is it your claim that you don't understand what civil discussion means, or that you consider statements like the above to be civil? Posting here requires civility as a forum rule, which means you do need to care enough to be polite and not jump to rude personal statements when you disagree with someone.

Talking about facts, as if you are the only one in possession of them, does not relieve you from following the forum rules and remaining civil. If you think you've been civil in these statements above, then we're not going to agree.

I gave you an example earlier of how to make a statement that conveys the same factual meaning you were trying to get across but with civility. You took that as lecturing, so I won't repeat it, but that's what I'm talking about.

Regards,

- Erik

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Take care with the insults.

Others can play the victim card as well.

Which "insults" ? I said perhaps you are adult, so I gave you a chance to reflect on your BS... I did not make a statement just expressed an idea / a hint for you.

So be thankful for that and also that Erik seems to be a person who has patience.

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


Glad you are in with us.

If you like WW2 aircraft you are in for a real treat with WITP-AE.

I don’t know how much you know about the Pacific War but you
might want to pick up a few books as well.

This is my recommended reading list:
fb.asp?m=3863933
But…..take a look at the entire thread.

The two I think are the best starters for someone interested in WW2 aircraft are
Fire in the Sky and Shattered Sword. They are must have in my opinion.

Welcome.

Solid recommendations as a place to start. I have found that playing this game (and WiTP and UV before it) has piqued my interest in reading about the Pacific War. IMO, one needs to have that feedback to be a better player.

Welcome aboard.

I have no dog in the fight, so I will venture that too much issue seems to be made over some disagreements on how to phrase things in similar statements? Looks like a mountain out of a molehill that doesn't bear continued discussion IMO. Can the aggrieved parties agree to disagree and just continue their valued input to the forum? Please?

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What bothered you about the appearance?

The optics on this are, to be candid, very bad.

See Trugrit's now closed thread for a sense of how at least some element of the community has reacted to this.

Given the light touch nature of forum moderation to date, I would have expected more than a superficial attempt to assess the situation before handing out bans. Sadly, that seems not to be the case.

Also disappointing is the inconsistent approach applied. Alfred has been banned for perceived rudeness.

What is the response for those on the forum that pass beyond rudeness and into direct attacks? Evidently none, with the expectation that Alfred will return once his ban is up and there will be a clean slate.

A poor decision given that some of the comments have been exceptionally insensitive ("psychotic tendencies", I think, passes far beyond rudeness) and to be frank, only scratch the surface.

Moderation standards being off the mark is one issue. Inconsistent application of said standards is a order of magnitude worse in my opinion.

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
The optics on this are, to be candid, very bad.

See Trugrit's now closed thread for a sense of how at least some element of the community has reacted to this.

Given the light touch nature of forum moderation to date, I would have expected more than a superficial attempt to assess the situation before handing out bans. Sadly, that seems not to be the case.

I've actually spent hours assessing the situation and reading many, many threads, but I'm sure that there is more that I don't know given that I haven't been regularly active in this sub-forum.

Trugrit's perceptions in that thread are frankly not based on any facts that I recognize, but as far as I can tell on worst case assumptions based on some comments Mark made. Those are out of my control - I can only do what I did and clarify that Alfred's ban was not because of some "special" status Mark has, but because of how Alfred behaved.

Also disappointing is the inconsistent approach applied. Alfred has been banned for perceived rudeness.

What is the response for those on the forum that pass beyond rudeness and into direct attacks? Evidently none, with the expectation that Alfred will return once his ban is up and there will be a clean slate.

A poor decision given that some of the comments have been exceptionally insensitive ("psychotic tendencies", I think, passes far beyond rudeness) and to be frank, only scratch the surface.

I think it's important to note that I did warn Mark as well as others that replying to rudeness with more rudeness is only going to lead to escalation. I don't agree with the attacks back at Alfred, but I also made clear that in our moderation, we consistently look to see who cast the first stone. Going through multiple threads over past months, that is Alfred, time and time again.

As far as my expectations when Alfred returns from his ban - yes, I expect everyone look at it as if Alfred has a clean slate. I expect bygones to be bygones and I'll extend everyone the benefit of the doubt, but if the forum rules continue to be regarded as inconvenient and irrelevant, more action will follow.

Moderation standards being off the mark is one issue. Inconsistent application of said standards is a order of magnitude worse in my opinion.

That would be true if they have been applied inconsistently. Per our standards, where he who starts it is the one who gets punished and the policy is to remind others to remain civil rather than responding in kind, they've been applied consistently.

Regards,

- Erik

I would write something but then I would be banned . . . [:(]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
I would write something but then I would be banned . . . [:(]

If you're planning to personally attack me, then yeah that would do it. If you're just planning to disagree that's never been an issue, go for it.

Regards,

- Erik

The optics for some of us newer players is that we need to sail into the forum with heavy belt armor to deflect the inevitable salvos from the more established battleships. Yet, some of these long-serving battleships need special rules exemptions lest they go to the bottom as a result of the slightest ill breeze. Erik basically fired a shot across the bows, and an entire battleship TF started colliding and foundering.

ORIGINAL: rmeckman

The optics for some of us newer players is that we need to sail into the forum with heavy belt armor to deflect the inevitable salvos from the more established battleships. Yet, some of these long-serving battleships need special rules exemptions lest they go to the bottom as a result of the slightest ill breeze. Erik basically fired a shot across the bows, and an entire battleship TF started colliding and foundering.

Talking about facts, as if you are the only one in possession of them

And Erik needs to learn to practice what he preaches because the quote above couldn't be a more concise example of what he is admonishing me for.

I'm insulted by your personal attack, Erik.

Who do I complain to to get you banned?

ORIGINAL: rmeckman

The optics for some of us newer players is that we need to sail into the forum with heavy belt armor to deflect the inevitable salvos from the more established battleships. Yet, some of these long-serving battleships need special rules exemptions lest they go to the bottom as a result of the slightest ill breeze. Erik basically fired a shot across the bows, and an entire battleship TF started colliding and foundering.

The optics for some of us newer players.....And I'm so new that the ink hasn't dried on my application form yet.... Is simply this..
I have no dog in the fight. I know no-one here. everyone is "new" to me and I probably know less about the game than any member of this group.
I'm no "Snowflake" and would stand my ground if attacked for no good reason.. But that's not the point.
My only point here is that if myself or any other Noob log in, hoping to learn from those with a LOT more knowledge of both the game and the history of WW.II P.T.O. how can we, when said 'knowledgeable experts' are too busy fighting each other like rats in a sack and the threads are filling up with schoolyard arguments and telling tales to teacher stuff.
Can't all the schoolroom politics be done through email or private message so that those of us with no involvement don't have to witness it.....Please.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
I would write something but then I would be banned . . . [:(]

If you're planning to personally attack me, then yeah that would do it. If you're just planning to disagree that's never been an issue, go for it.

Regards,

- Erik

No, not a personal attack against you or anyone else. Just some commentary . . .