Matrix Games Forums

Hey Daykeras,

I never professed this as a solution, just a possibility to alleviate some of the research issues, it obviously need to be expanded on. And your earlier post was right, there is a possibility it will open a whole new can of worms, that's why we need to discuss it, coherently.

Now, as my earlier posts suggest, there is no bonus unless you're researching behind the WS. As implied, in most of the games I've played, the WA are usually the leader in research, not always, but most of the time. That is why we have the issue with their super units.

WA will only get a bonus if they are researching from behind the WS level. Now let's think about this.

If the WA are leading the way in certain categories and there is the possibility that the USA is not even activated for their combat unit deployments yet, who would be most likely to benefit from researching behind the WS.

My guess would be the active player with the most PPs per turn, and in my games that would be Axis, in the early turns. USSR could benefit also as the WA research could be configured to help them get a boost in something essential like Inf. Ev. and they would be getting the advantage of using less PPs to get up to the new WS that the WA were setting. This could be considered as tech sharing between allies, but still the 2 turn delay reigns.

In turn, Axis, could help Japan and since WA research categories similar to the Japanese philosophy, Japan, with the least amount of PPs(xcept China), would really stand to benefit most.

Essentially, what I'm saying is there could be all kinds of far reaching effects of a feature oriented on research catch up and it makes historical sense.

I agree with the implications of this feature that we will see higher tech levels, but its relative, everyone will have the opportunity with the followers spending less of their income than the leaders.

The problem is that it would also make it cheaper to continue raising the stat for the leader of the pack.

Jan, am I wrong in assuming that researching over the WS cost double the PPs as it does to research up to the WS?

Perhaps it is actually only the the level above one over the WS (in essence the second level above WS)?

Okay, then maybe as the research levels escalate above the original WS, the amount of PPs needed is a multiple? Example: Inf Ev to WS = 6 PPs, one over WS = 12 PPs, two over WS = 18 PPs, three over = 24 PPs.

I believe this above example is right, so what needs to happen is that the leader(s) still need to pay on this escalating scale with the original WS level as reference for cost. Only the followers would get the catch up bonus paying 6? less than the leader pays.

Hmm... This does decrease the cost of the atom bomb auto victory, unless somehow programmed not to affect the leader of a stat.

If we're going to ask them to program this in perhaps it should be something like a cost - benefit trade off. Max stats should be 7 all around and to increase a stat beyond that another stat will be decreased propotionally.

I am thinking like ground attack would decrease speed by 1. Now that doesn't mean much if you can make your speed 7, so it shouldn't be too big of an affect. Or perhaps air attack reduces evasion. It's historically correct to reduce something to increase something else. This could create more differences between units as well. The germans could research more evasion at the cost of ground or air attack, while the Wallies increase air attack at the cost of ship attack, all the while max for anything else is just 7.

It wouldn't kick in unless the changing stat is at 7 already or the propotional reduced number. So 9 air attack would mean you have 5 evasion (or ground attack, or speed, or something) instead of 7, but it doesn't hurt you if you never researched up to 5. Obviously whatever reduced speed would be the most used stats, so maybe speed should have a reduction of 2 per extra point.

All the unit types would have different set limits for the stats. Ships would have a higher max speed, for instance.


EDIT!!:

Oh in response to what happens to the followers, yes they only pay the 6. However this does not increase speed for research as you may be thinking.

Up to WS you have a set limit of resources you can put into a research. When you go above the WS then that set limit increases along with the cost. So when it costs 3 more to research up a level you can also do it 3 times faster. It is this reason that increasing WS would only allow the leader to research at the same speed as before, but for much less.

If we're going to ask them to program this in perhaps it should be something like a cost - benefit trade off.

Good suggestion, there were implications and trade offs for enhancing certain unit attributes.

Unfortunately, Daykeras, I'm sure the developers are not going to alter the code, but it was fun to suggest.

Remember when I made my first post about the catch up tech and Joel's original comment that we would not see it in the game.

The best we can hope for is some sharp modder out there to simulate the feature somehow, which is exactly what I was trying to instigate.

Oh well, maybe WaW2........really though, WaW is just a stepping stone for the real show......SC2.

What's SC2?

I'm all for helping test WaW2 *wink wink*

Well I just love to turn people on to the real future of WW2 and beyond strategic wargaming.

Check it out at Battlefront, Daykeras. Better yet, purchase Strategic Command, the original, for a measley $25. No No....just try the demo, I forgot.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised...I was.

The only thing as good a value as SC is HttR, and I have PG series and TOAW.

Wow. That looks pretty sweet. Reminds me that I need to get Civilizations 4.

Where were we? Oh yea. Fighters strategicly bombing.

You know, my one big gripe in this game isn't so much super units as the fact that 2 or 3 units are all you need to focus on to win. Combined arms armies will almost always lose in the end.