Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:20 pm**

The way I see it, it wasn't especially unrealistic. It's not unreasonable to expect that the Japanese would have intelligence about the massive reinforcement of Malaya, and rightly considered the British Eastern Fleet a far closer and more dangerous threat than the very, very distant US Pacific Fleet. I think people were just a little surprised at the scale of the devastation. The Eastern Fleet basically ceased to exist on the morning of December 7th, and here the Japanese actually GOT the carriers.

Kudos to Feurer!

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:20 pm**

From the book, Rising Sun, Falling Beam the complete biography of Isoroku Yamamoto:

It is clear that Yamamoto had his doubts about the validity of the Japanese war plan. He had often argued against war with the Allies. Although he fell in line and put all of his planning expertise to work in an attempt to win the war, there is ample evidence that he was constantly plagued with doubts. These entries from his personal journal shows the depth of his concerns.

Dec 7, 1941 - We have scored a major victory against the British fleet at Singapore today. There has been a great deal of celebration and happiness throughout the naval command headquarters. The details are irrelevant, the enemy fleet has been savaged for little loss to our own forces, of which I am thankful. I still worry for the coming years of our Empire, I feel there is much bloodshed and pain to come.

Dec 8, 1941 - I had a dream while resting last night. I was a powerful man and there were two brothers, the elder was strong and proud, the younger was weak and timid. The younger had a prize I desired, but the elder protected him. I then killed the elder, took the prize from the younger, and I awoke. Sitting here I understand the dream now, and I worry for its portents. We have hurt the old power of the British, and we will soon win easy victories in the Phillipines against the United States. The British and the US are like brothers though, and will not the younger grow stronger for not being sheltered from the world by the elder? I fear it is so. Standing on his own, I fear he will grow stronger faster than if he had been left in complacency. And with this strength will come a vengence, not for the prizes we will have taken, but rather for the pain inflicted on his respected elder brother. We have not scored the brilliant victory that the world sees now, all we have done was force a naive power to wake up, stand on its own, and exact what will be a terrifing revenge.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:22 pm**

So I guess Yamamoto lived?

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:28 pm**

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Be interested in seeing how badly the Rodney got hammered...

When I get home, I'll send Alikchi an ended save so he can get the details and post whatever he feels is safe to post.

As some have mentioned, this is a playtest. granted, if no major problems are encountered, we might play it out for a long time, but since it is a playtest, I'll try to be a little less secretive than I typically would, hopefully to the benefit of the readers. Of course I could always be putting out disinformations, so be forewarned. [:'(]

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:31 pm**

ORIGINAL: String

Hmm.. I didn't realize Feuer Krieg could read this thread [:'(]

Yes, it is shared, so Jap and Allied fanboys theorize, plan and suggest all you like for both sides. Thus Alikchi and I can both have plenty of material to wade through and consider. I'm certainly not a pro at this game yet, so expect to see mistakes. I already had a couple bombardments that didn't happen because I had my TF setting on retire, and with the surprise thing, no night turn, so they retire before they bombard, or something like that.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:34 pm**

So I guess Yamamoto lived?

Who's to say the journal was not back at HQ when he got shot down? Actually, we have to see how the game goes to find out if he lives.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:43 pm**

ORIGINAL: Alikchi

Ah shucks, I'm really not that good. Just long-winded. [:D] I admire Feurer's style.. that last post was excellent! And ominous.

I am looking forward to the propoganda, I have to say..

--

Leaving the SRA, here I'll detail changes to the Pacific Fleet at Pearl and the Royal New Zealand Navy at Auckland.

[center]Allied Forces in the Far East - 12/6/41 - Part Three

The Pacific Fleet[/center]

[center][/center]

The USN is slightly larger in Iron Storm than in reality - three battlecruisers larger, in fact. The "battlecruiser clause" in Iron Storm's Washington Treaty allows the USN to complete three of their five Lexington-class battlecruisers - Constellation, Constitution and United States. The other two, Lexington and Saratoga, are converted to CVs.

The battlecruisers are the only American capital ships speedy enough to keep up with the carriers and usually serve as escorts in carrier task forces. Constitution, for example, is almost always paired up with Lexington.

[center]
Capital ships of the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor. Lexington and Constitution are preparing to make a run to Wake Island to deliver Wildcats there. Oklahoma has been sent to the West Coast for boiler repairs.[/center]

[center]New Zealand and her Navy[/center]

[center][/center]

The RNZN (Royal New Zealand Navy), along with the RAN and RCN, was allowed to keep one "Capital Ship" under the Washington Treaty, to serve as a flagship. New Zealand couldn't afford to buy a new ship from Britain, and so was forced to stick with the old Indefatigable-class battlecruiser HMNZS New Zealand.

[center]
HMNZS New Zealand.[/center]

The ship has actually turned out to be surprisingly handy. Although she essentially sat in mothballs through most of the 1920s, a major pre-war rebuild in Britain turned her into a powerful "light battlecruiser", and the perfect answer to Germany's "pocket battleships". She proved her worth at the Battle of the River Platte by pounding Graf Spee under the water with 12" "heavy" shells. Her task, along with light cruisers Leander and Achilles is to defend the sealanes between the US and Australia from Japanese AMCs.

----

I think that's enough for now - most of the changes to the Allies that impact the strategic situation have been listed above. You'll learn about the Japanese as I fight them. [;)]

Coming up soon - FINALLY - the actual game! [8D]

How did you get the multiple pics in your post?[X(][;)]

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:54 pm**

When I do multiple pics, I just use the image tags and host the pics on my own webspace. I assume Alikchi does the same.

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:59 pm**

I think he uses an image account like Photobucket...

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:27 pm**

Yup, I use Imageshack (www.imageshack.us) and multiple image tags.

And I agree with Feurer Krieg re: realism/unrealism. I honestly don't know enough about Singapore harbor to tell you whether or not the Nells could have made their attacks, but honestly, those ships that were going to sink were already in the process of sinking at that point - it was the huge alpha strike from the carriers that really did the Brits in! Either way, the Eastern Fleet may have lost most of her capital ships, but Singapore isn't just going to roll over in the face of this dastardly attack, I assure you [;)]

Whether striking Singapore over Pearl is a wise move in the long term, we shall see. The imperialists shall pay! [:D]

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:52 pm**

To complement my last comment: if I'd been doing the IJN driving, I'd have done the exact same thing. The RN represents (or represented[;)]) a far greater threat to the Japanese plans for the SRA. Considering how hard he's hit Alikchi's forces, Feurer has just given himself a lot of room to maneuver. So what if he hasn't annihilated the USN? Let them come!

Posted: **Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:05 pm**

So what if he hasn't annihilated the USN? Let them come!

Hey hey hey, I'm the good guy here! No pandering to the enemy! [;)]

In all seriousness though - agreed. It was a good move, and not "gamey" in the least. So that's that.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:12 am**

ORIGINAL: Terminus
So what if he hasn't annihilated the USN? Let them come!

That's the spirit!!

So I have plans that I thought through before I did my first turn of course. But I'm certainly interested in what any Jap experts out there would do with all this Japanese carrier airpower. 6 CV, 4 CVLs and I think I have a couple CVEs around as well, not to mention the CSs ships. Cruise the SRA looking for Dutch warships? A pleasure cruise to Trimcomalee? Leave all that british LBA and head for the open seas of the Pacific? Split up and do a little of all the above?

What are YOUR thoughts?

Also, think I have 2 CVs and 2 CVLs due out of the yards in the next 6 months.

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:50 am**

Show me how willing you are to make sacrifices in the name of Japan by running them all aground at Palau! [:D]

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:45 am**

Again I dont think it was gamey its exactly the right thing to do as the RN is a huge threat it is what I would have done !!!!.

Last play test they werent neutralised and I think the IJN lost multiple carriers on day 2 or 3

I just dont think surprise should be on for turn 1 I doubt it would make a difference except for a few more pilots on both sides killled.

I can see an argument for Carrier borne planes having 'special' weapons like they did at Pearl to take advantage of the strike so I am less worried about kates dropping torps as they replicate these 'special weapons'

I think no non carrier based bombers should port attack but as both players said they werent decisive it was KB that did the damage its not an issue !!!!

This is a play test where we all snipe from the sidelines....I must admit I am looking forward to seeing the RN get its own back when all those fast BC's come into play.

Andy

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:13 am**

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Again I dont think it was gamey its exactly the right thing to do as the RN is a huge threat it is what I would have done !!!!.

Last play test they werent neutralised and I think the IJN lost multiple carriers on day 2 or 3

I just dont think surprise should be on for turn 1 I doubt it would make a difference except for a few more pilots on both sides killled.

I can see an argument for Carrier borne planes having 'special' weapons like they did at Pearl to take advantage of the strike so I am less worried about kates dropping torps as they replicate these 'special weapons'

I think no non carrier based bombers should port attack but as both players said they werent decisive it was KB that did the damage its not an issue !!!!

This is a play test where we all snipe from the sidelines....I must admit I am looking forward to seeing the RN get its own back when all those fast BC's come into play.

Andy

Hehe agreed! Probably a house rule for surprise should be stipulated if the Japanese attack Singers on day 1.. hmmm, will have to think about it.

I hope I can do the RN justice when reinforcements arrive! And there certainly are a lot coming, the ships lost at Singapore Naval Base will soon be avenged.. [8D]

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:13 pm**

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

That's the spirit!!

So I have plans that I thought through before I did my first turn of course. But I'm certainly interested in what any Jap experts out there would do with all this Japanese carrier airpower. 6 CV, 4 CVLs and I think I have a couple CVEs around as well, not to mention the CSs ships. Cruise the SRA looking for Dutch warships? A pleasure cruise to Trimcomalee? Leave all that british LBA and head for the open seas of the Pacific? Split up and do a little of all the above?

What are YOUR thoughts?

Also, think I have 2 CVs and 2 CVLs due out of the yards in the next 6 months.

Actually, you're supposed to have 8 CV's, including the two at Camranh. If it was me, I might split up into KB #1 and 2, each with 4 CV's and 2 CVL's. Each TF would have more than enough firepower. Then I'd send one into the Indian Ocean, to gain sea control there and deal with the remaining British ships in the area. The other one would patrol in the Java/Sumatra/Borneo triangle, looking for the Dutch, as well as the remainder of the British Eastern Fleet (notably Repulse and Australia).

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:33 pm**

To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think that The RN would have been aware of the concentration of the battleline and a significant part of the carrier force at Camranh Bay, and would therefore have drafted plans for a possible assault against Singers... I think they would have been more prepared...

I think that an effective attack against Singers would have been possible, but the RN would have been more ready at least... therefore no surprise on turn 1... And a significant amount of fighters in CAP...

Nevertheless I am looking forward for the rest of the play test...

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:40 pm**

Yup, shows how much I can keep track of things when I'm not in front of the game.

So here's the full CV assets -
Current - 8 CV, 4 CVL, 2 CVE
Additions by mid-1942 - 3 CV, 2 CVL, 1 CVE

My only concern with cruising the SRA too deeply early on is that with the aircraft mods in this game no deathstar is invulnerable. My Zeros had a heck of time bringing down those Beaufighter 2 engined buggers. If I sail into the middle of several strikes, the results might not be pretty.

But hey, I'm open to suggestion!

Posted: **Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:50 pm**

I would stay concentrated for 2 reasons.

1. You stay invulnerable and you have nothing else to fear.

2. The US could be concentrating their Carriers and sending them into the theatre or doing a speed run close to allow them to dismount SBD's.

A run at PI just close enough to dismount 2 carriers woth of SBD's plus it only takes 6 or 7 days to get USAAF Gps to Singapore and I dount you can keep it closed.

Now imagine 72 Navy SBD's, some Beauforts/ some Stringbags and lots of B17's in 7 days all escorted by AVG and as many 70 xp Spits as the RAF can muster and even with the zero bonus its enough to ruin a 4 carrier TF .

Andy

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Iron Storm Playtest - Feurer Krieg vs Alikchi

RE: 12/7/41 continued

RE: 12/7/41 continued

RE: 12/7/41 continued

RE: 12/7/41 continued

RE: 12/7/41 continued

RE: 12/7/41 continued

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion

RE: Allied position in the Far East - conclusion