Matrix Games Forums

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:
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Did Arnaud discuss this? I'm wondering. If the new plan is to charge reinforcing units per square to the combat square, and the distance is 5 squares, no unmotorized unit will be able to make it to the destination. Even in clear terrain and clear weather, readiness loss for movement of unmotorized units in clear terrain is 20%. So 5 squares later it will be 0%?

I'm thinking something more abstract is needed here, because the whole idea of reserve units in the same square as the HQ is an abstraction, after all, HQs can easily hold more units in a single square than can exist in a tank army/corps. Not all units are literally in the same square, they're spread around. I'm not really sure of what to say here, except maybe we can create a special readiness loss list for reinforcing units. The numbers would be lower allowing even an infantry division to contribute something to a fight 5 squares away.

BTW, when you and that Army dandy start to tango, can this squid have a ringside seat? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

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Arnaud did include what he did in the read me, at least in part. I don't know about the details for sure, I was going by memory, but it seemed reasonable whatever he did. And as to a 20% reduction, I think it works off the readiness as of the last hex moved to, so it would 20% of a dropping amount maybe. Also, it probably does not take into account terrain and maybe not weather. In other words, I think the reduction is applied in a special manner.

My brother was a squid also. I spent a fair amount of time aboard different ships, out of my total time in.

Assuming that the Reserve units at the HQ are not right at that hex but placed at points where they can best reach all Corps as reinforcements they would be midway between HQ and all Corps. So the reinforcements would actually need to move hexes/2 of the two furthest units (including HQ) of the complete Army.
As the computer can't guess the two furthest units it must calculate it as for example :

((distance(HQ-Corps1) + distance(HQ-Corps2) + ... + distance(HQ-Corps n)) + (distance(Corps1-Corps2) + distance(Corps1-Corps3) + ... + distance(Corps1-Corps n)) + ... + (distance(Corps n-1 - Corps n)) divided by sum(1,2,...,n-1,n)

This will result is half distance between the two furthest units.

To account for different supply/roads on moves by units maybe the supply level could somehow be included. Maybe the readiness loss is not fixed 20% per hex but (20% minus supply-lvl). That way units will move faster along supply routes (which is quit logical, or not ?).
Additional readiness modifiers could be included for different terrain ?

murx

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:



BTW, when you and that Army dandy start to tango, can this squid have a ringside seat? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

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Doh!

Originally posted by murx:
((distance(HQ-Corps1) + distance(HQ-Corps2) + ... + distance(HQ-Corps n)) + (distance(Corps1-Corps2) + distance(Corps1-Corps3) + ... + distance(Corps1-Corps n)) + ... + (distance(Corps n-1 - Corps n)) divided by sum(1,2,...,n-1,n)

This will result is half distance between the two furthest units.

To account for different supply/roads on moves by units maybe the supply level could somehow be included. Maybe the readiness loss is not fixed 20% per hex but (20% minus supply-lvl). That way units will move faster along supply routes (which is quit logical, or not ?).
Additional readiness modifiers could be included for different terrain ?

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Very good murx. Don't know if Arnaud will want something complex if he can find a simpler way, though. On the issues list anyway.

Wow, absolute newbie to the game and on the íssue' list with a comment <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Maybe I can keep up the pace:

Another idea from another game (The Ardennes Offensive, dont remember who made it, but it's freeware at the moment). There Divisions are made of 1-3 Regiments (no HQ units shown). If a Division still has 3(2) Regiments *and* they all are in five hex range they get 'Divsional' bonus, meaning they can use Divisonal assets (like DivArty, DivAT units and other independent units). The units only get the bonus when they fight as a 'Division'. Maybe the reinforcments could be completely redone to fit the following:

Only 'independant' - none Divisional size units get as reinforcements for a fight.
The reinforcements are temporary for that single fight.
The readiness loss of the reinforced unit should be depending on the overall 'front coverage' (what's the military proper word ?) - so a PzBn acting as a Corps 'firebrigade' on a Corps covering big chunk of the front would get depleted very fast, but a small Corps 'JpzBn' only defending a city and it's immediate surrounding terrain could fight over and over again.

This would make 'indevidual' Bn sized units be used more appropriate to the historical use.
Would solve the problem of InfDiv ending up in PzCorps - which then are impossible to transfer due to low readiness.
Makes it neccessary to keep the HQ closer to the front units to cut readiness loss for the reinforcements (again getting closer to historical settings).

And there could be some transfer 'readiness' cuts too. Transfering units from a HQ to it's Corps would cost 1x readiness (as it is a logistical problem to include into a set fighting unit fresh/new units), transfering them back costs 0.5x readiness (as it is not really transferred back to the HQs location but into the Armies back area between front and HQ, supply situation there is much easier and better).
Transferring units from a different HQ to another Armies Corps costs 1.5x readiness (as it includes even more HQ interaction and reorganization).
Transferring units between HQs still costs 1x readiness - that unit has at least one turn .

Also reassigning a Corps/HQ to a new HQ should cost a minor readiness loss (5-10% ?) as communication & supply logistics need to be redone (not completely but to a degree).

murx

(comments appreciated)

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

<*snip*> More troll-speak!

BTW, when you and that Army dandy start to tango, can this squid have a ringside seat? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

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The only rings that squids know about is Sphincter rings.

Ed

Ok. Jarheads grunts and squids i've heard. What do you label the air force pukes? Any service that has the term 'pucker factor' in their lexicon must cop a lot of ragging.
I love that americanism...REMF. It's my personal name for the Australian Gov'nt.(Who are true SNAFU artists)

Nick

PS. You've reminded me of all the games i GAVE away. Squad Leader, WiFlames, War in Europe, Gulf Strike, and...aaaurghh. i gave away Drang nach Osten!! Fool.

[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]</p>

We are known as "Death From Above". Sleep tight tonight, because the USAF is always awake.

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
Ed

Ok. Jarheads grunts and squids i've heard. What do you label the air force pukes? Any service that has the term 'pucker factor' in their lexicon must cop a lot of ragging.
I love that americanism...REMF. It's my personal name for the Australian Gov'nt.(Who are true SNAFU artists)

Nick

PS. You've reminded me of all the games i GAVE away. Squad Leader, WiFlames, War in Europe, Gulf Strike, and...aaaurghh. i gave away Drang nach Osten!! Fool.

[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: Lokioftheaesir ]

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Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir:
What do you label the air force pukes?

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What's wrong with "air force pukes"? <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

No seriously, whatever I may have heard I've since forgotten. Its different for the Navy and Marine Corps because they operate together very much, the Marine Corps being once a part of the Navy (RickyB will deny this I'm sure), so a "squid" probably first hears "jarhead" in boot camp, and vice versa. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

PS. You've reminded me of all the games i GAVE away. Squad Leader, WiFlames, War in Europe, Gulf Strike, and...aaaurghh. i gave away Drang nach Osten!! Fool.

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It hurts don't it? I sold for a pittance Third Reich, Squad Leader and its 3 add-ons (never got into ASL though), War and Peace (Napoleon), Guns of August (WWI), and Hell's Highway (good one on Operation Market-Garden), Fortress Europa (Operation Overlord), and others too painful to even say. A3R is the only one I have left.

[ August 19, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]</p>

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

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What's wrong with "air force pukes"?
[ August 19, 2001: Message edited by: Ed Cogburn ]

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LOL!


I was thinking the same thing, but stewardesses will do fine.

Originally posted by JustAGame:


LOL!


I was thinking the same thing, but stewardesses will do fine.

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It was a setup for a slam dunk that I just couldn't pass by. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

"Stewardesses" works just as good! I'll try that on my uncle, a former USAF aircraft mechanic. If you don't hear from me in a couple of weeks, you'll know what happened. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn:

It was a setup for a slam dunk that I just couldn't pass by. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

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Ed

Now i know why i HAD to pute the 'pukes' at the end of airforce. Well done.

Nick