Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
6.) Activation scheme. At least in my experience, I don't really see it as a problem. The transfer utility thingy might be a bugger, but barring that I don't see how it is any different from a matrix serial number.

Just a small question to highlight the difference between server activation and a serial number :
Let's just suppose Mr. Koger's previous game had server activation - could you give me the url of the TalonSoft activation server ?

Server activation means you haven't bought a game you can install irrespective of whether the publisher is still around or not, you've *rented* a game for as long as the company who produced the game keeps their activation server running. That's fine for a game-of-the-month FPS but if you routinely install wargames from a previous decade ...

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Correct. However, from their website's FAQ section:

Q. What happens if Storm Eagle Studios goes out of Business?
A. In the unlikely event that Storm Eagle Studios goes out of business, most likely it’s the end of the world. In the event we do go belly up, we will most likely release a final code update to remove the copy protection from the game.

So, that eventuality is, in theory, already planned for. It isn't a firm contract admittedly, but it seems to me they have at least thought of what to do should that happen.

Problem here : when TalonSoft went under Mr. Koger had a final patch all wrapped-up and ready to be released ... but wasn't allowed to for legal reasons. See, a company that goes out of business doesn't own their assets (like games, patches, ...) any more, they're not theirs to give away. If they go out of business (which may be unlikely) there's a better than even chance you'll never see that patch.

I'd replace "most likely" with "we will do our best, but it's out of our hands" for a more accurate description of where you'd stand as a consumer. But that would probably scare away some customers.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Correct. However, from their website's FAQ section:

Q. What happens if Storm Eagle Studios goes out of Business?
A. In the unlikely event that Storm Eagle Studios goes out of business, most likely it’s the end of the world. In the event we do go belly up, we will most likely release a final code update to remove the copy protection from the game.

So, that eventuality is, in theory, already planned for. It isn't a firm contract admittedly, but it seems to me they have at least thought of what to do should that happen.

There may be one scenario in many where this could happen (circumstances allow for protection removal). The fact remains that so long as this sort of copy protection exists on the product, you stand to lose your game as soon as you uninstall the program for whatever reason.

So does that mean that it's not enough to just re-enter your activation code? You know this for sure?

ORIGINAL: Terminus
So does that mean that it's not enough to just re-enter your activation code? You know this for sure?

Yup, "activation" implies connection to a server on the 'Net for verification. If that server isn't there anymore you're out of luck - permanently.

A serial number verification system - like that used by Matrix - means you'll be able to install TOAW 3 on Windows 2050 if the OS is backward compatibility - more likely you'll be using a WinXP emulator like you're using DosBox now for Dos programs.

If longetivity of a game is no concern than it's all moot of course.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Well, obviously... My point was that if I uninstall the game, I should still be able to re-install, provided that Storm Eagle is still running...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this scheme...

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Well, obviously... My point was that if I uninstall the game, I should still be able to re-install, provided that Storm Eagle is still running...

As good a synopsis of activation as I've ever read

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this scheme...

Me neither. For most gamers it's an extra factor in the buy/no buy decision making process. There are those games you wanna have no matter what and there I would cave in and accept activation, but for games where I'm a bit on the fence it's a deal breaker. Distant Guns is in the latter category for me so it's their loss.

Activation may be relatively new in the wargame world, in the business software world it's pretty much old hat. Corporate IT guys like me hate it with a vengeance. This year alone it has forced me to work during a whole weekend because corporate guidelines prohibited a connection from a particular database server whereas the database software insisted on activation. Smart software companies already realize this, that's why M$ has a "corporate" WinXP version : that's a regular XP Pro with the activation part removed.

I'm having none of that in my own free time if I can help it.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

I don't have the game, but my understanding from the cryptic information that arises from forum discussions is that once you "activate" your game, you must use the license transfer utility to install the game after activation. IOW, there's no "reactivation" if you uninstall. You can only activate once. If you fail to make your transfer disk (whether due to hard drive failure or merely forgetting you have a game that requires you to make a transfer disk), uninstalling the game will destroy your "license". At that point, you must go begging SES to let you activate again somehow, if they're still in existence.

If someone has better information, I'd like to hear it insofar as this scheme is the primary, but not only, barrier to my purchase of this software. When I buy entertainment software, I do not wish to have a forced, continuing relationship with the company selling it. I want to own the thing, with the ability to download and save patches for it on my own machine. With activation, I am tied to the issuer for the life of the program and my use of it remains at the issuer's sufferance.

As I understand it, the "Free Campaign" bundle ends today, unless the "offer has been extended. This would make the "Game" plus the "Campaign" together cost $90 US. People are, as far as I can tell, having problems in deciding whether to purchase. Usually this is a straightforward matter. But, as it stands, it appears people are being invited to purchase a game with less than a day left, in order to get the "free" campaign, at a time when many people who bought it seem to feel the campaign is very buggy. Those who only have the demo, haven't played the campaign at all. I suspect that the customer relations aspect to this is a little misjudged, especially as, in order to purchase you are permanently tied to the developers, which you may not be overly impressed with, for a variety of reasons. The pressurizing of the potential customer to buy quickly, in order to get the campaign "free", when the campaign seems to be the most significant part of the game, and reportedly has problems, and then making the game permanently tied to Storm Eagle, who can then develop it or not develop it as they choose, just doesn't "feel right" somehow.

So 9 hours left - will I or won't I? The tension is killing me.[&o]

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Well, obviously... My point was that if I uninstall the game, I should still be able to re-install, provided that Storm Eagle is still running...

As good a synopsis of activation as I've ever read

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this scheme...

Me neither. For most gamers it's an extra factor in the buy/no buy decision making process. There are those games you wanna have no matter what and there I would cave in and accept activation, but for games where I'm a bit on the fence it's a deal breaker. Distant Guns is in the latter category for me so it's their loss.

Activation may be relatively new in the wargame world, in the business software world it's pretty much old hat. Corporate IT guys like me hate it with a vengeance. This year alone it has forced me to work during a whole weekend because corporate guidelines prohibited a connection from a particular database server whereas the database software insisted on activation. Smart software companies already realize this, that's why M$ has a "corporate" WinXP version : that's a regular XP Pro with the activation part removed.

I'm having none of that in my own free time if I can help it.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

Count me in amongst those against activation scheme,it feels like i dont really own the game and that i have the game company as my liege.[:-]
Matrix's activation is another thing,i can be activated w/o internet connection to Matrix's website/server and it seems that the serial number is meant to tally with the algorithm embedded in the executed file.

Software companies seem to have forgotten that the customer is always right. Don't punish the legitimate purchasers with unwieldy activation schemes that feel like serfdom. [:@]

I won't be purchasing this game as the whole affair has an unpleasant odour to it. And I was pretty keen when I saw it being developed too. [:-]

Cheers, Neilster

I have DG and have been having a blast with it! It started out badly, but SES has been very responsive to fixing the major show stoppers. Now at v1.017 the game plays pretty solidly and I haven't had an major complaints with it. There are still minor things that need to be fixed, and items that are on everyoone's wishlist. I have no doubt that they will get fixed or implemented.

The activation scheme isn't any more of a hassle than using Microsoft's activation scheme for XP or MS Office. Once your game is activated you no longer need to be connected to the internet, except for checking for updates. You are able to move the license around quite easily from desktop to laptop with the license transfer utility and do not need to be connected to the internet to run the game.

Regards..

I just recently found the demo for DG and was impressed by it. Sadly my tactics seem to have been a chronicle of what not to do as I lost all 3 Russian cruisers to the Japanese.

Is anyone still playing this this game? Has anyone had much luck or fun with the current version of the campaign?

It's pretty boring... I'm moderately intrigued by the announcement of the next part of the series, but it'll have to be MUCH more interesting than DG...

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

I just recently found the demo for DG and was impressed by it. Sadly my tactics seem to have been a chronicle of what not to do as I lost all 3 Russian cruisers to the Japanese.

Is anyone still playing this this game? Has anyone had much luck or fun with the current version of the campaign?

Are they still using the same "purchase activation system"?

(I'll pay a good buck for software, but that's a deal breaker for me.)

DG is a very good game, but apparently with a maccarone code. When something is fixed, something else is broken. 

ORIGINAL: Procrustes

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

I just recently found the demo for DG and was impressed by it. Sadly my tactics seem to have been a chronicle of what not to do as I lost all 3 Russian cruisers to the Japanese.

Is anyone still playing this this game? Has anyone had much luck or fun with the current version of the campaign?

Are they still using the same "purchase activation system"?

(I'll pay a good buck for software, but that's a deal breaker for me.)

Yes, they are...

 hmmmn,
            So the campaign,GUI and tech support are not enough to make the game attractive? I also find the payment method less than optimal,but the period and Norm being a designer/develper has me thinking hard on it.

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812
hmmmn,
           So the campaign,GUI and tech support are not enough to make the game attractive?

What tech support ?

Seriously - it took them 15 (fifteen) days to answer a poster's simple question if it runs on Vista or not on the only forum they ever visit.

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/distant ... ility.html

On April 10th they released patch 50 which - as per their default - broke something else : torpedo ranges. People have been asking when this new bug will be fixed - no answer yet.

Zeus help the gamer who's got a *real* problem with that level of tech support ...

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

What tech support ?

Good Question.

Last August I downloaded the first demo and the game's EXE turned off/disconnected my hard-drive, twice, once each time that I tried to fight a battle. I visited the SES website looking for tech support and found none, no useful FAQ or forum, nothing. Then I Google'd the game and ended up at the AG forum, where I was told by a game reviewer that there was something wrong with my system. I guess the guy didn't realize that I was a veteran beta-tester for both game developers and Nvidia, and that I run just about every piece of gaming software around, typically without issue.

Anyway...

About a month later, I downloaded a second demo. This second EXE resolved the hard-drive issue, but it was chugging along and the game froze several times. While I was actually able to play the battle to conclusion a couple of times, the game appeared unstable and my sound card kept my speakers poppping. Well, guys, I followed the routine above once more, and, once again, the developer/publisher website provided no relief. This time, however, Google sent me to the SZO forums.

Apart from the treatment being meted out to disgruntled visitors by a hyper-sensitive little scrum of community "insiders," game reviewer included, I discovered that there was NO TECHNICAL SUPPORT, whatsoever, for DG, at least not in the conventional sense. Folks who were having trouble with the game were directed to email the offending file(s) to the developer for perusal and repair. For the uninitiated, that's EXACTLY what a beta-tester does for a developer. It's also worth noting that, from patch to patch, the bugs and fixes weren't being publicly documented. Folks were just throwing darts into space as they sent in those files. IIRC, the game was on version #13 at that time. It's currently up to version #50, and is broken, yet again.

Okay, so much for the "cultural problems" with the developer and their approach to the public and their products. The truth is, I never purchased the game, because of my experience with the demos. I can, however, offer some brief criticism of the game, albeit limited to the battle that I was able to complete with the second demo.

The tactical/battle portion of Distant Guns is little more than a 3D version of this:

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/N ... shima.html

If you're truly wowed by 3D graphics, if that's what floats your pre-dreadnought, then you're gonna be mighty happy with DG. Apart from that, however, Koger's game is just as boring as Tiller's. There's nothing to do. You just sail around with the camera and watch the battle. Simple battle functions, such as torpedo work, are out of your hands. And, in that Tiller's includes a 2D map to plot movement on, I consider his work superior.

The game desperately needed:

1) a 2D map for accurate movement plotting. The GUI for plotting movement of TF and individual ships is clumsy, and most damningly, hopelessly imprecise. Players shouldn't lose games because of klunky interfaces, IMO.

2) A bridge view with some nice binoculars would go a long way in introducing some effective FOW into the battles, not to mention the immersiveness that's sorely lacking in the game.

3) Full player control of guns and torpedo directors and targeting.

That's a brief list of things that would have to be included before I would consider taking a second look at Distant Guns, from Storm Eagle Studios, or any other game based on the same engine, for that matter. As for the "tech support" which Eddy alludes to, I'd NEVER buy a game from an outfit that operates like SES, in that regard. You just can't treat people like that and expect them to buy your games.

PoE

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
The tactical/battle portion of Distant Guns is little more than a 3D version of this:

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/N ... shima.html

If you're truly wowed by 3D graphics, if that's what floats your pre-dreadnought, then you're gonna be mighty happy with DG. Apart from that, however, Koger's game is just as boring as Tiller's. There's nothing to do. You just sail around with the camera and watch the battle. Simple battle functions, such as torpedo work, are out of your hands. And, in that Tiller's includes a 2D map to plot movement on, I consider his work superior.

I will not defend many many aspects of DG (marketing, distribution scheme, tech support, community service, price etc etc) but this I cannot let pass!

DG is about bazillion times better, more detailed, more realistic than any of the HPS naval games.

I also find it more enjoyable, although this is subjective.