Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

100% prep helps, but it isn't essential in every case (though it was in this case, where the enemy is well prepared and has many forts). If you can catch the enemy by surprise so that a base isn't adequately garrisoned, or if you have so much time that you can blugeon it to submission, then it's okay to to go in with substandard prep.

The thing with prep is you pay now or you pay later. You can wait for 90-100% and be fine in exchange for the time cost, or you can go early and get disrupted/disabled on the landing, and pay later to recover. Atolls are a bit different in that you can go in with regiments, but to the west are islands that take multi-divisions. I've often disabled circa 150 squads of an ID landing with 60-70 prep. And even with massive supply and rest it can be two months to put the ID back to battery.

In my first PBEM, with the AAR, my opponent landed at Eniwetok with almost no prep, full IJA ID. It was wiped out to a man by a minimal defense. I think a para unit, a Seabees unit, and a base force, with Forts 3 or 4. He was quite upset.

Taking some tanks--any tanks--along on an atoll can sometimes save your bacon if the infantry is not prepped or is too small. You can withstand the auto-shock a lot better with some tanks in the first wave.

That's why I have been prepping for the big islands to the west while going into Kwaj pretty much on a shoestring. The Roi invasion troops were better prepared, but weighing all factors, I preferred Kwaj for proximity reasons. If the Allies can replenish BB ammo at Jaluit, then hitting Kwaj is a considerably easier prospect than Roi-Namur.

Termite2, thank you for that info. Jaluit is level 4, 98 naval support, 5.4k AE disbanded into port. So that should be good. BBs Tenn and West Virginia will arrive there tomorrow, so I'll know then for certain.

9/3/43

Thin Man: No sign of Steroid KB or Kongos. Mini KB is just east of Eniwetok, in the open and rather exposed. That's a risky position, but I think it has to be dangling bait. I just have to believe that Steroid KB is coming, but since there's no sign of it, the Allies will continue preparations for the resumption of the assault on Kwaj.

The AE/AD TF arrived at Jaluit and disbanded in port. I think that will allow BBs to replenish ammo. So the bombardment TF that hit Kwaj so effectively will move there tomorrow If it replenishes (and assuming KB doesn't show up), it will revisit Kwaj day after tomorrow (distance is five hexes, so I think it will work).

Raw AV of the Allied troops on Kwaj increased from 44 to 58. That's decent. If Kongos don't bombard it might well be possible to try another attack a turn after the next bombardment (the turn after will allow me to verify that the bombardment was sufficiently disruptive).

So, unless Steroid KB shows up, the Allies intend to push forward at Kwaj.

Supply is coming ashore very fast now, mainly as a result of APAs that pulled back from Kwaj with some supply. Jaluit has 36k and Maloelap has 55k. Supply TFs are still unloading at the other islands. But, at this point, the Allies can retire if necessary, knowing that the Marshall supply situation is in good shape.

We are still having a sync bug. John sent the combat report, which showed an IJ sub hitting a supply LST near Mili. My view of the movie didn't show it. But the turn file confirms it was hit and badly damaged.

Oklahoma is two days from the Marshalls. Washingotn and Alabama are four days.

Very interesting times in the Marshalls.

Thin Man on the 3rd. The Allies may be just two days from resuming attacks on Kwaj. And yet...an appearance by Steroid KB might shift the Allies from offensive to defensive posture. Tense days in the Marshalls.

Question on the sync problem, how do you know you are running the same version?

ORIGINAL: Termite2

Question on the sync problem, how do you know you are running the same version?

The version is printed on the main menu page.

John and I have been running the same version for months. Then, either early today or late yesterday, I started getting "an earlier version" message when I tried to load the files. So somehow I think John is using an earlier version?

I'm using 1.7.11.25.6 - November 14, 2015.

When I load the 001 replay or the next turn file, I get this message: "Saved under 1.7.11.24 different version."

So John seems to be using an older copy suddenly????

We are having a sync bug too - this past turn the combat report he sent showed an LST getting hit by a sub. But when I ran the 001, it didn't show a clash. Then, when I opened the new turn, it did show a badly damaged LST.

So we have some issues. This is a concern, since it leaves me uncertain as to what's going on.

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: Termite2

Question on the sync problem, how do you know you are running the same version?

The version is printed on the main menu page.

Would that mean that the database is the same also?

Double check your leaders on Kwaj just in case one of them drown coming ashore. [:D] They help with your recovery there too.

The sync bug has also been troublesome for me. Sometimes I can replay the turn and get different results.

People suggest to restart your computer before running a turn.

You will need to communicate with John to see which version he is running.

Even with the same version the synch bug can rear it's ugly head at times.

One time I ran the game on my work computer and had a sync bug. Then I re-ran the turn on my home computer and didn't have the sync bug!

ORIGINAL: Termite2

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: Termite2

Question on the sync problem, how do you know you are running the same version?

The version is printed on the main menu page.

Would that mean that the database is the same also?

That version number follows the format of a game version. I have not played scenarios and dont know if there are also scenario versions although it has been mentioned multiple times in this thread that the scenario 'cannot be updated' midstream so I dont think so.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

One time I ran the game on my work computer and had a sync bug. Then I re-ran the turn on my home computer and didn't have the sync bug!

The problem is that it does not seem to be easily repeatable. I think it must have to do with the random number generator and the seed it uses but that is just a SWAG...

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

100% prep helps, but it isn't essential in every case (though it was in this case, where the enemy is well prepared and has many forts). If you can catch the enemy by surprise so that a base isn't adequately garrisoned, or if you have so much time that you can blugeon it to submission, then it's okay to to go in with substandard prep.

The thing with prep is you pay now or you pay later. You can wait for 90-100% and be fine in exchange for the time cost, or you can go early and get disrupted/disabled on the landing, and pay later to recover. Atolls are a bit different in that you can go in with regiments, but to the west are islands that take multi-divisions. I've often disabled circa 150 squads of an ID landing with 60-70 prep. And even with massive supply and rest it can be two months to put the ID back to battery.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

9/3/43

Thin Man: Raw AV of the Allied troops on Kwaj increased from 44 to 58. That's decent. If Kongos don't bombard it might well be possible to try another attack a turn after the next bombardment (the turn after will allow me to verify that the bombardment was sufficiently disruptive).

So, unless Steroid KB shows up, the Allies intend to push forward at Kwaj.

As Bullwinkle points out, the difficulty in not getting a 1:1 at least in an atoll invasion is the heavy disablements you incur from a negative shock.

What was the starting AV and what was disabled of the Japanese units there? He'll be recovering too, and against 6 forts, attacking with heavily disabled troops may end up putting you further behind.

In my current game the Japanese thwarted two separate atoll invasions at Marcus Island with 6 forts and a few naval guards against much heavier troops, even including tanks and engineers. No idea on prep, but what I know is that attacking quickly again, even with a higher AV than the Japanese troops, and with heavy bombardments from sea and air, they did not take the base.

I'd advise letting the troops slowly heal disabled squads, pounding any nearby airfields, controlling the sea approaches as you've been planning with mines, subs, and Fletchers, and hitting the Japanese with constant bombing pressure from waves of 2E. Even 4-5 disabled squads adds up quickly if they can't recover. Hitting and closing fields and port so he can't easily send troops/supply in or pull useless troops out would help too.

Why don't you and John upgrade to the 3 April 2016 beta patch? This would ensure you are both on the same version. Upgrading to the newest version of RA shouldn't cause a sync issue as that just data.

9/4/42

Thin Man: The pressure cooker is bubbling away. No sign of Steroid KB, but it looks like a big combat TF is at Eniwetok, with Mini KB posted a hex to the east. Meanwhile, the Allied BB TF replenished at Jaluit (using half of the AE's supply). So the Allied carriers and combat ships will move north to near Ailinglaplap. Depending on what happens with enemy forces tomorrow (could be fireworks, could be quiet), the BBs will bombard Kwaj day after tomorrow.

The troops at Kwaj continue to recover - raw AV now at 66 and each unit behind a fort (except 3rd 'chutes, which is behind three forts).

The Allies may complete troop retrieval tomorrow; the last piece to the puzzle being the loading of 7th USA Div. aboard transprorts for delivery to Pearl. That unit was carved up and sent to many islands as reinforcements during the Roller Coaster invasions. But it's prepped for Ponape and will reassemble at Pearl in preparation for that move.

Allied ASW hit another IJN sub hard.

Circus: SigInt that 14th Div. is aboard marus bound for Ulak. I don't see it on the map, but it could be close. I'm sending in DMs and the Fletcher TF. All aircraft squadrons at Ulak and Adak are on standby - lots of naval strike squadrons, lots of good fighters for escorts. I assume Johh will bring a huge covering force of combat ships and possibly some carriers. I'm sortying the "Northern Carrier Fleet": three CVEs at Prince Rupert - just in case John doesn't have carrier support.

It looks like the next few turns could be very interesting in both areas of the Pacific.

But where is Steroid KB? I'm guessing in or close to the Marshalls. I just wish I knew.

ORIGINAL: obvert

In my current game the Japanese thwarted two separate atoll invasions at Marcus Island with 6 forts and a few naval guards against much heavier troops, even including tanks and engineers. No idea on prep, but what I know is that attacking quickly again, even with a higher AV than the Japanese troops, and with heavy bombardments from sea and air, they did not take the base.

In your/our game, the Marcus Island invasion by the Allies was pretty much doomed from the start. Prep on the two divisions was 60-80% while the smaller tank and base forces were at 100%. I think when I took over the overstack was 17k+ on a 6k atoll, not good. What was it Historiker allowed to happen, 4 straight shock attacks? He wiped out the 25th Infantry Division which had 0 infantry squads left when I took over. I don't know if he ordered those shock attacks himself, or if they were a result of that division unloading all four days. Either way, he burned through his combat troops, suffered massive disruption due to over-stacking and had zero supply. It was clear to me he didn't understand atoll invasions. If at first the attack goes badly, you either cut and run, or you do what you need to do to relieve over stacking or low supply. Definitely stop unloading fresh troops or ordering attacks until you stabilize the situation. If you can control the sea zone for some time, you attack with air and naval forces to keep the defenders worn down until your forces have recovered. Then you attack.

That whole operation was an atoll too far and bungled right from the get go. [:-]

Trust me, you won't see that again from the Allies. [8D]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: obvert

In my current game the Japanese thwarted two separate atoll invasions at Marcus Island with 6 forts and a few naval guards against much heavier troops, even including tanks and engineers. No idea on prep, but what I know is that attacking quickly again, even with a higher AV than the Japanese troops, and with heavy bombardments from sea and air, they did not take the base.

In your/our game, the Marcus Island invasion by the Allies was pretty much doomed from the start. Prep on the two divisions was 60-80% while the smaller tank and base forces were at 100%. I think when I took over the overstack was 17k+ on a 6k atoll, not good. What was it Historiker allowed to happen, 4 straight shock attacks? He wiped out the 25th Infantry Division which had 0 infantry squads left when I took over. I don't know if he ordered those shock attacks himself, or if they were a result of that division unloading all four days. Either way, he burned through his combat troops, suffered massive disruption due to over-stacking and had zero supply. It was clear to me he didn't understand atoll invasions. If at first the attack goes badly, you either cut and run, or you do what you need to do to relieve over stacking or low supply. Definitely stop unloading fresh troops or ordering attacks until you stabilize the situation. If you can control the sea zone for some time, you attack with air and naval forces to keep the defenders worn down until your forces have recovered. Then you attack.

That whole operation was an atoll too far and bungled right from the get go. [:-]

Trust me, you won't see that again from the Allies. [8D]

No doubt Joseph! [;)]

The first attempt was more in line with prudent atoll policy. A regiment and some other bits. Tried to find the CR but don't think I saved them so far back and it's only just mentioned in m AAR.

Anyway. It takes some doing if the defenders are behind big forts, and if the landing doesn't get the base, then patience and methodical attrition is the way forward.

John and I have been discussing updating to the 4/03/16 beta. Then he sends this email, revealing his hand:

"I just downloaded and installed it. Took about 1 minute from start to finish. Go ahead and do the same while I run the turn. Let’s just do that.

"There will be heavy action coming and I want it done without issue."

That's a nice tip-off.

ORIGINAL: obvert
The first attempt was more in line with prudent atoll policy. A regiment and some other bits. Tried to find the CR but don't think I saved them so far back and it's only just mentioned in m AAR.

Anyway. It takes some doing if the defenders are behind big forts, and if the landing doesn't get the base, then patience and methodical attrition is the way forward.

You mean this was try number two? [X(]

Ha, I'll have to try for three, it being the charm and all that.

I think the key to atoll invasions is the unloading. If you can reduce or remove any disruption from unloading over the beach you are that much better off. Softening up the defenders is key, but I think getting your attacking troops ashore in one piece is more important.

I'll get lots of practice at least, or maybe not.

Sorry for the hijack CR.