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ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

to paraphrase Warspite.....

ROSBERG!!!!!

warspite1

[;)]

Raining here in London - but it looks like it's going to be a dry race at Silverstone this afternoon. Shame, that could have mixed things up a bit....

LEWIS!!!

What a race!!!

Great first half with Williams and Mercedes.

Great the way Hamilton finished the first stint with the pit stop. Rosberg was very unlucky to come out a few secs too late.


Thought that Hamilton messed things up when he came in to change tyres, just as Rosberg was applying the pressure. (Had to leave the room, to take of little son. Thought it was a Monaco deja vu).

Was very surprised to find Vettel in third as I came back. Shame for Williams, they did deserve the Podium.

All in all, the best race all season, loved the way the crowds cheered during the race. I must visit Silverstone someday for a F1 race. The best place to enjoy motor racing.


Nice win for Lewis.

Mat

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Raining here in London - but it looks like it's going to be a dry race at Silverstone this afternoon. Shame, that could have mixed things up a bit....

warspite1

What do they say? Careful for what you wish for....

There was Lewis, controlling the race nicely, with Nico unable to get beyond 4th because of the similarly powered Williams, and.....

...the rain decides to make its presence known and throws the race into turmoil.

Fortunately it all worked out but damn, my frail heart doesn't need that kind of excitement......

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Raining here in London - but it looks like it's going to be a dry race at Silverstone this afternoon. Shame, that could have mixed things up a bit....

warspite1

What do they say? Careful for what you wish for....

There was Lewis, controlling the race nicely, with Nico unable to get beyond 4th because of the similarly powered Williams, and.....

...the rain decides to make its presence known and throws the race into turmoil.

Fortunately it all worked out but damn, my frail heart doesn't need that kind of excitement......

My hands were trembling, nearly threw the remote away when Hamilton came in for tyres that second time. Did not realize it was for intermediates. I thought the track was drying out and Raikkonen having difficulty with his tyres.

I thought he had blown his win, again!!!


Mat

While I am definitely NOT a fan of Lewis Hamilton - or of Toto Wolf and Niki Lauda for that matter - I must say this was a WELL deserved win by Hamilton - hats of to the driver and to the excellent strategy, whoever decided on it.

The performance of the Williams team gives hope for the rest of the season, for some more exciting - the Performance on the race-course, that is. I think Williams could have donebetter, but simply screwed it, tactically.

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Nice start by Rosberg, and awesome pit stop! Keep it up Nico!

warspite1

I just read an interesting take on what happened at the start of the Austrian Grand Prix.

From the BBC:

Austria a turning point?

At this point, it is worth rewinding the clock two weeks to Austria. There is no doubt Rosberg had a pace advantage over Hamilton there, but equally there was no doubt that the race turned on the start.

Hamilton, starting from pole, was not as fast off the line as his team-mate, lost the lead and from then on had it all to do.

At the time, it looked like a mistake by Hamilton, but in fact it was anything but. He was slightly late in dropping his clutch but that was because he was managing a very tricky problem.

There was a fault with his engine, which was not responding to his foot on the throttle. It meant Hamilton had to guess the correct position to hold the throttle for the start, and hope for the best. Incredibly, he got it almost right.

Mercedes replicated the problem with Rosberg at the subsequent test and he could not get the car off the line without stalling, despite trying several times. Hamilton had in fact, Mercedes executive director (technical) Paddy Lowe said, done "an amazing job" to do the start he did.

That feat demonstrated Hamilton's remarkable feel for the capabilities of a grand prix car in changing circumstances, an ability that comes to the fore on that crucial final lap in qualifying, especially in the sort of gusting winds that were blowing at Silverstone on Saturday. Or, as was the case on Sunday, in racing situations, or when it rains mid-race.

RIP Jules Bianchi [:(]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

RIP Jules Bianchi [:(]

Yes, RIP Jules.

Kind of shocked to be honest, brings back memories of 21 years ago with Roland Ratzenberger and Ayrton Senna.

It's helped that a lot of safety changes have been made since then but its still been a lucky 2 decades. There have been numerous 'close' calls. Maybe this is a wake up call and its time to change the formula again and have enclosed cockpits?

Enclosed cockpit or not, the same would have happened. Sad news indeed.

I think that one death in all those years - while tragic - says everything that needs to be said for the continuing safety measures put in place - and still being updated and improved - over time.

F1 is open seater racing. Personally I believe that it is not tintops and should not become so. As AndyG1 says, unless the cockpit was made of some kind of kevlar type material (is that even possible with glass?), then this would not have altered the outcome. Poor Jules Bianchi's car sailed directly into and under the crane. Having seen the footage of the crash I do not know how he survived the immediate impact.

Glass canopies would in themselves cause issues - what if it rains? But regardless of that, I would hate to see them in F1.

Glass canopies would in themselves cause issues - what if it rains? But regardless of that, I would hate to see them in F1.

Well, glass canopies seem to work at Le mans and elsewhere. (and trust me, it rains there.) But I have to agree; F1 wouldn't be the same with enclosures. There is no way to make a sport involving those kinds of speeds perfectly safe.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think that one death in all those years - while tragic - says everything that needs to be said for the continuing safety measures put in place - and still being updated and improved - over time.

F1 is open seater racing. Personally I believe that it is not tintops and should not become so. As AndyG1 says, unless the cockpit was made of some kind of kevlar type material (is that even possible with glass?), then this would not have altered the outcome. Poor Jules Bianchi's car sailed directly into and under the crane. Having seen the footage of the crash I do not know how he survived the immediate impact.

Glass canopies would in themselves cause issues - what if it rains? But regardless of that, I would hate to see them in F1.

I'm quite sure that enclosed cockpit tech and design could over come rain or fragility you claim (ie. look up jet fighter canopies). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7kym3FJOg4

I guess we seen different footage of Bianchi and we will agree to disagree than an enclosed cockpit could of saved Jules...or for that matter Aryton...or did you see different footage of that too?

F1 has changed from 1950 to now, I fail to see why it can't change even more than the 'one dominate team snorefest'/'top teams money hording' its become since 1996.

Sorry if I sound bitter or prissy about this topic overall but its a rather large sore point with me. The old men who run this sport are the ones driving into obscurity. And no one...NO ONE...should die in a motor sport accident when the f*#&ing technology is currently available to prevent it...even at the 'expense' of tradition/style/aesthetics. As the old saying says..."Change or die"..oh...that's right someone just did die...but will we change??? [:@]

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think that one death in all those years - while tragic - says everything that needs to be said for the continuing safety measures put in place - and still being updated and improved - over time.

F1 is open seater racing. Personally I believe that it is not tintops and should not become so. As AndyG1 says, unless the cockpit was made of some kind of kevlar type material (is that even possible with glass?), then this would not have altered the outcome. Poor Jules Bianchi's car sailed directly into and under the crane. Having seen the footage of the crash I do not know how he survived the immediate impact.

Glass canopies would in themselves cause issues - what if it rains? But regardless of that, I would hate to see them in F1.

I'm quite sure that enclosed cockpit tech and design could over come rain or fragility you claim (ie. look up jet fighter canopies). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7kym3FJOg4

I guess we seen different footage of Bianchi and we will agree to disagree than an enclosed cockpit could of saved Jules...or for that matter Aryton...or did you see different footage of that too?

F1 has changed from 1950 to now, I fail to see why it can't change even more than the 'one dominate team snorefest'/'top teams money hording' its become since 1996.

Sorry if I sound bitter or prissy about this topic overall but its a rather large sore point with me. The old men who run this sport are the ones driving into obscurity. And no one...NO ONE...should die in a motor sport accident when the f*#&ing technology is currently available to prevent it...even at the 'expense' of tradition/style/aesthetics. As the old saying says..."Change or die"..oh...that's right someone just did die...but will we change??? [:@]

warspite1

Well I can tell it is an emotive subject for you CarnageInc but that is not like you to react like that [:(]

1. The reference to the cockpit in rain conditions came from no less than Martin Brundle - not me - and as he is an expert I have taken him at his word that there are issues to be overcome. Of course they would not be insurmountable (depending of course on what they are designed to survive) - nor was he suggesting they would. As the Capt. said, they are used elsewhere - but are these bullet and crush-proof?

2. As I said in my earlier post I have no idea what "glass" can be made of that would survive such an impact (Bianchi). At that speed, with that force and weight I would be surprised - but then I am no expert.

3. Ayrton Senna's accident was different. He died because a piece of suspension (what was effectively a spear) pierced his helmet in just the wrong place. Would that spear have pierced any canopy AND the helmet? Again I do not know, I have no idea the speed it was travelling or what the canopy would be made of - maybe not.

4. But as said, the point for me is not about safety - its about "What is F1?!" And to me personally, F1 is open wheel, single seater racing. IT IS NOT tin tops and I would probably stop watching if it became so. But that is my personal opinion.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

RIP Jules Bianchi [:(]

I always hoped he would recover to live his life, maybe not racing. Every death is terrible.
If I am not mistaken, one of the reasons why F1 brought in the virtual safety car, was because of this terrible crash.

I think a closed cockpit would have been crushed in his accident. The crane which weighs a few tons was lifted off the ground during the impact. But then again I am no expert.

There have been many improvements in the F1 since the beginning, but with those speeds and racing on the limit is dangerous.

I just hope Jules will not be forgotten.

Mat

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: CarnageINC

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think that one death in all those years - while tragic - says everything that needs to be said for the continuing safety measures put in place - and still being updated and improved - over time.

F1 is open seater racing. Personally I believe that it is not tintops and should not become so. As AndyG1 says, unless the cockpit was made of some kind of kevlar type material (is that even possible with glass?), then this would not have altered the outcome. Poor Jules Bianchi's car sailed directly into and under the crane. Having seen the footage of the crash I do not know how he survived the immediate impact.

Glass canopies would in themselves cause issues - what if it rains? But regardless of that, I would hate to see them in F1.

I'm quite sure that enclosed cockpit tech and design could over come rain or fragility you claim (ie. look up jet fighter canopies). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7kym3FJOg4

I guess we seen different footage of Bianchi and we will agree to disagree than an enclosed cockpit could of saved Jules...or for that matter Aryton...or did you see different footage of that too?

F1 has changed from 1950 to now, I fail to see why it can't change even more than the 'one dominate team snorefest'/'top teams money hording' its become since 1996.

Sorry if I sound bitter or prissy about this topic overall but its a rather large sore point with me. The old men who run this sport are the ones driving into obscurity. And no one...NO ONE...should die in a motor sport accident when the f*#&ing technology is currently available to prevent it...even at the 'expense' of tradition/style/aesthetics. As the old saying says..."Change or die"..oh...that's right someone just did die...but will we change??? [:@]

warspite1

Well I can tell it is an emotive subject for you CarnageInc but that is not like you to react like that [:(]

1. The reference to the cockpit in rain conditions came from no less than Martin Brundle - not me - and as he is an expert I have taken him at his word that there are issues to be overcome. Of course they would not be insurmountable - nor was he suggesting they would. As the Capt. said, they are used elsewhere.

2. As I said in my earlier e-mail I have no idea what "glass" can be made of that would survive such an impact (Bianchi). At that speed, with that force and weight I would be surprised - but then I am no expert.

3. Ayrton Senna's accident was different. He died because a piece of suspension (what was effectively a spear) pierced his helmet in just the wrong place. Would that spear have pierced any canopy AND the helmet? Again I do not know - maybe not.

4. But as said, the point for me is not about safety - its about "What is F1?!" And to me personally, F1 is open wheel, single seater racing. IT IS NOT tin tops and I would probably stop watching if it became so. But that is my personal opinion.

Your right Warspite, sorry for getting angry. I have a little story on why. My father was a friend of Peter Revson in his early days, knew him and Mark Donohue believe it or not before they hit it off in F1. It hit him hard when they died within a year of each other. Our fathers, like most of us, got us hooked on F1. In 1982 we both watched Gilles Villeneuve then Riccardo Paletti, a few weeks, later die on TV. He quit watching after that and we stopped bonding over it.

Growing up I was still a huge F1 fan, and like a lot of us, fell in love with Aryton Senna, the aggressive rebel he was. In 1994 I actually got to meet and get an autograph from no one less than Roland Ratzenberger doing some PR work for MTV (lol) stateside. He was the first real F1 driver I got to meet in person. GO SIMTEK!!! Then later that year they both died...within a day of each other....wow!

I got lucky with Schumy, Webber and Alonso/Rosberg (so far), and believe it or not I was a big Jules Bianchi fan. I thought the French were due to have an up and coming driver...sorry Grosjean. Then Japan happened. That's why I quit posting in the F1 thread for quite some time.

I still love the sport but I'm pissed because a lot of my heros have died or have had very close calls over the years. All the deaths could of been prevented, IMO, with some thought of what happened previously. HANS device should of been looked at years before hand because of the 82 accidents. At least reinforce cockpits came out of that mess...but slowly. The HANS device would of saved Roland. Ayrton and Bianchi could of been saved with a more sheltered or enclosed cockpits.

I know a lot of what I said about safety is hindsight and hypothetical thinking but its hit home far to often for me...therefore the anger. I feel I'm done with F1 [:(]

I've been following F1 since 1998. I know this will rub some of you wrong, but frankly, every one of these drivers know exactly what they are getting into when they get into the sport, and I would like my own sons/daughters to try it if they have an interest. Knowing this, and the fact that they get paid huge bucks, what happens, happens. Sorry if one of your heros in the sport get killed, but that's the way it goes.

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I've been following F1 since 1998. I know this will rub some of you wrong, but frankly, every one of these drivers know exactly what they are getting into when they get into the sport, and I would like my own sons/daughters to try it if they have an interest. Knowing this, and the fact that they get paid huge bucks, what happens, happens. Sorry if one of your heros in the sport get killed, but that's the way it goes.

warspite1

I have sympathy with this view. You buy a ticket to a motor racing event and there it is in black and white "Motor Racing is dangerous". However, whereas previously (certainly pre Jackie Stewart) scant thought was given to safety (and remember Stewart received HUGE opposition for what he was trying to do from some ....... DRIVERS!) nowadays a more sane approach is taken.

As CarnageINC alludes to, its tough to see drivers you support, perhaps know, but either way you get an emotional attachment to, die. Many deaths were simply always going to happen given the technology of the time, but some are just so sad, so angry inducing, because they genuinely could have been avoided with more thought given to driver (and spectator) safety. Roger Williamson is the one that always haunts me. Marshals equipped for the job of fire-fighting was all it would have taken to make this a non-fatal accident but.....

So yes, the search for safety continues - but we cannot wrap drivers in cotton wool. Otherwise they would have banned motor-cycling years ago - and the lower car formulae (where deaths are far more common) what happens to them?

I understand the danger and I understand the anger, too. I think part of the anger, and forgive me if I'm wrong on this, was the shortsightedness of having that crane out there while they were still racing at speed.

Am I wrong in saying this was a wreck AFTER another wreck and the crane was out there removing the initial wrecked car?