Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: obvert


It's interesting you've included a handful of unsubstantiated reports over the past, what, 60 years? [:D]

The piece about the NY Times in 2016 is actually quite telling. To me that says there is a real intent on the part of the best journalism to self-regulate and call out non-objective reporting. Good on him. Takes courage to do that. Thanks for mentioning.

"Unsubstantiated"???? CBS FIRED Dan Rather at the height of his commercial success. Why do you think THAT happened? The alleged National Guard letter was proven forgery. How else could you have a font not invented for two decades after the letter was allegedly written??? You have blinders on, man.

As for 50 years...well, every example except JFK was from the last three Presidencies. I merely included JFK as an example of egregious press whitewashing.

As for the NYT, one shouldn't need the Editor writing an apology piece AFTER a two year election cycle telling his own journalists to be more unbiased. Objectivity is a prime ethical duty. They all took an ethics class. The piece was ONLY written because Trump won. He needed to claw back some credibility.His own readers were angry at him for failing to warn them. [:D] It's pointless. You say there are no examples I cite a few in a two minute post from memory and you call the firing of Dan Rather "unsubstantiated". Guess what there is no film of the Titanic hitting the iceberg either.

Another really good report from Italy today (195 deaths). It's up a bit from yesterday, but significantly down over previous reports.

UK report is 288, down from yesterday and way down from the previous high levels.

Denmark, one of the first to begin easing countermeasures, continues to show a gradual decline in new cases and stable (but relatively low) mortality.

Austria, which also eased, has had marked declines in cases and mortalities. These may be significant, as there were some reports last week of "flare ups" that might require renewed countermeasures. That doesn't appear to be the case, at least on a national basis. (There might be local areas that require some attention.)

With the easing of countermeasures in the US beginning about 10 days ago, there are predictions of flare-ups etc. We should know pretty soon if that's going to be an issue. And, if it is, we'll then see if responses are adequate and if medical capacity becomes too stretched. On the other hand, if the results continue favorably, further easing will ensue.

It used to be when you mentioned the obvious liberal bias in media that everyone on the planet has known about for well over a generation, you would get push back about the fact that Fox News exists.

What those making the push back didn't seem to grasp is that the very existence of Fox News IS the proof. Fox News, and Briebart and Daily Wire and and many other conservative bent news organizations only came into existence as push back against the prevalent liberal bias that was overwhelming at the time.

Those organizations would never have come into existence, if not for the liberal bias they exist to push back against.

Do we have more of a balance now, sure we do. But a large majority of mainstream news organizations still exhibit a very heavy liberal bias. It's a shame we get one colored view from one side and another colored view from the other, with almost no one seemingly able to give us an uncolored view.

Some will continue to keep their heads buried in the sand in denial. Nothing can be done about them and it's a waste of effort engaging them. Moving on was the best choice CR could have made. You should do the same Cap.

Constantly being challenged to prove the sky is blue gets tedious very quickly......

French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December
Old samples from 24 pneumonia patients who tested negative for flu are retested

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... r-retested

Interesting in the light of those influenza statistics from NYC from a day or so back - from memory the numbers for December were c.3-4 times higher than those from previous years??

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Cats and dogs ‘thrown from tower blocks’ in China

Sounds like something out of Judge Dredd or The Raid... [X(]

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December
Old samples from 24 pneumonia patients who tested negative for flu are retested

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... r-retested

Interesting in the light of those influenza statistics from NYC from a day or so back - from memory the numbers for December were c.3-4 times higher than those from previous years??

Whoa! That is interesting. Have to be careful because they are probably just testing for RNA and a tiny contamination can be amplified with the polymerase technique.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

Isn't the fact that you know about that due to journalism reporting it? You're making the case yourself.

Not true, I have to hunt to find this reporting. Plus there are random acts of journalism being committed. Two that come to mind are Atkinson (lost her job because of it) and Herridge currently. Certainly the rise of the Drudge Report was accomplished by breaking stories that the media wouldn't run.

The Drudge Report is media. What media "won't run" is up for much debate though. Firstly, what is the definition of media to you? Secondly, this implies some collusion between rival independent businesses striving for a higher market share. Thirdly, how you back that up with some kind of objective evidence seems pretty tough.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

ORIGINAL: obvert


It's interesting you've included a handful of unsubstantiated reports over the past, what, 60 years? [:D]

The piece about the NY Times in 2016 is actually quite telling. To me that says there is a real intent on the part of the best journalism to self-regulate and call out non-objective reporting. Good on him. Takes courage to do that. Thanks for mentioning.

"Unsubstantiated"???? CBS FIRED Dan Rather at the height of his commercial success. Why do you think THAT happened? The alleged National Guard letter was proven forgery. How else could you have a font not invented for two decades after the letter was allegedly written??? You have blinders on, man.

As for 50 years...well, every example except JFK was from the last three Presidencies. I merely included JFK as an example of egregious press whitewashing.

As for the NYT, one shouldn't need the Editor writing an apology piece AFTER a two year election cycle telling his own journalists to be more unbiased. Objectivity is a prime ethical duty. They all took an ethics class. The piece was ONLY written because Trump won. He needed to claw back some credibility.His own readers were angry at him for failing to warn them. [:D] It's pointless. You say there are no examples I cite a few in a two minute post from memory and you call the firing of Dan Rather "unsubstantiated". Guess what there is no film of the Titanic hitting the iceberg either.

I don't really care what indescretions, firings or other difficulties you bring up. These exist in every profession. I simply commented that your interest in this topic seems to go way back.

Journalism is a daily activity. I don't stop flying planes just because a few crash here and there. I don't stop driving cars, (although with the fatality and injury rates, maybe I should?), and I don't stop looking for fairly objective reporting even when there are some controversies, some bias and some difficulties understanding which is which.

Freedom of the Press is not diminished by these issues, but since they have all (apparently) come to light, that is actually quite good. Critique is fine. The practice and institution of journalism is much bigger than a few scandals, and much more important.

Would you rather not have it at all?

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

Isn't the fact that you know about that due to journalism reporting it? You're making the case yourself.

Not true, I have to hunt to find this reporting. Plus there are random acts of journalism being committed. Two that come to mind are Atkinson (lost her job because of it) and Herridge currently. Certainly the rise of the Drudge Report was accomplished by breaking stories that the media wouldn't run.

The Drudge Report is media. What media "won't run" is up for much debate though. Firstly, what is the definition of media to you? Secondly, this implies some collusion between rival independent businesses striving for a higher market share. Thirdly, how you back that up with some kind of objective evidence seems pretty tough.

I am old enough that I consider media to be the major networks and newspapers. The corporate media so to speak. And yes they do collude to a huge degree even to using the same buzzwords over and over again.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



Not true, I have to hunt to find this reporting. Plus there are random acts of journalism being committed. Two that come to mind are Atkinson (lost her job because of it) and Herridge currently. Certainly the rise of the Drudge Report was accomplished by breaking stories that the media wouldn't run.

The Drudge Report is media. What media "won't run" is up for much debate though. Firstly, what is the definition of media to you? Secondly, this implies some collusion between rival independent businesses striving for a higher market share. Thirdly, how you back that up with some kind of objective evidence seems pretty tough.

I am old enough that I consider media to be the major networks and newspapers. The corporate media so to speak. And yes they do collude to a huge degree even to using the same buzzwords over and over again.

Most here use the word media and predominantly give examples based on major sources that either began as or most often are associated with US TV networks.

I haven't lived in the US for over a decade (2007) and I didn't watch TV news when I did since about the late 80s.

I read. I read from may sources. I look to find references and cross reference when I can, and now I even have several sources that rate journalistic sources for accuracy and reliability around a number of factors. I believe journalism is needed now more than ever to counter the false reports that paper all over social media and from our (sometimes) trusted figures.

Without good journalism, a free press, we veer toward authoritarianism. It's very surprising to hear so much critique of it here. I hope most just mean they only like the sources they trust.

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December
Old samples from 24 pneumonia patients who tested negative for flu are retested

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... r-retested

Interesting in the light of those influenza statistics from NYC from a day or so back - from memory the numbers for December were c.3-4 times higher than those from previous years??

This is revelatory. Wow.

So it was in France in December? If true ...

Then I'm betting it was also in Italy, the UK, and almost assuredly, NYC. Now have another look at those flu numbers Lowpe posted a day or two ago.

Also, this is before we really even knew what was going on in China.

I wonder how much before November it was moving through Wuhan? It's been estimated to have all kicked off in November. I'm guessing now it was earlier than that.

It'll be interesting if other countries can source samples from "flu/pneumonia" cases from December and November, even.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says ‘enormous evidence’ for Wuhan lab coronavirus origin
May 03, 2020


https://www.oregonlive.com/business/202 ... rigin.html


"WASHINGTON — U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo said “enormous evidence” shows the novel coronavirus outbreak began in a laboratory in Wuhan, China, and that Beijing has refused to give international scientists access to learn what happened.

“I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan,” Pompeo said on ABC’s “This Week,” broadcast Sunday. “These are not the first times that we’ve had a world exposed to viruses as a result of failures in a Chinese lab.”"

Here is a Dec 6th article from San Francisco about the Flu...

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/ ... alifornia/

Flu Season Off To An Early Start; 16 Flu-Related Deaths Already In California

I also think the very first Stanford study alluded pretty heavily to the virus being in California around December.

It mentions the 2003 flu season, I remember that well as my kids got sick and were never tested for influenza but were reported for having influenza. I can remember a discussion with the Doctor at the time about statistical accuracy. "In my medical opinion they have the flu..." I said "fair enough."

I have had so much more life experience with the medical system since then. I fear I am no longer an easy patient.[;)] But I do pay promptly.[:D]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says ‘enormous evidence’ for Wuhan lab coronavirus origin
May 03, 2020


https://www.oregonlive.com/business/202 ... rigin.html


"WASHINGTON — U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo said “enormous evidence” shows the novel coronavirus outbreak began in a laboratory in Wuhan, China, and that Beijing has refused to give international scientists access to learn what happened.

“I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan,” Pompeo said on ABC’s “This Week,” broadcast Sunday. “These are not the first times that we’ve had a world exposed to viruses as a result of failures in a Chinese lab.”"

Interesting. You picked this from The Oregonian, my hometown rag. [;)]

A headline search showed a story on this ran in virtually every paper.

I prefer the take of the Guardian. It shows some real teeth instead of simply reporting the quote, making sure to mention he did not provide any of the evidence he claimed he had seen and also showing the part where he got a bit confused about whether the virus was manmade in origin.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... laboratory


The US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, claimed on Sunday there is “enormous evidence” the coronavirus outbreak originated in a Chinese laboratory – but did not provide any of the alleged evidence.

Pompeo’s claims, made in an interview with ABC’s This Week, represented an escalation in rhetoric. He had previously said the US was looking into the possibility the virus came from a lab in Wuhan, China.

On Sunday, Pompeo said: “There is enormous evidence that that’s where this began,” later adding: “I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan.”

At one point, the secretary of state appeared confused over whether he was claiming the Sars-CoV-2 virus (which causes the Covid-19 disease) was deliberately engineered or escaped as the result of a lab accident.

“Look, the best experts so far seem to think it was manmade. I have no reason to disbelieve that at this point,” he said.

But when he was reminded that US intelligence had issued a formal statement noting the opposite – that the scientific consensus was that the virus was not manmade or genetically modified – Pompeo replied: “That’s right. I agree with that.”

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is a Dec 6th article from San Francisco about the Flu...

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/ ... alifornia/

Flu Season Off To An Early Start; 16 Flu-Related Deaths Already In California

I also think the very first Stanford study alluded pretty heavily to the virus being in California around December.

It mentions the 2003 flu season, I remember that well as my kids got sick and were never tested for influenza but were reported for having influenza. I can remember a discussion with the Doctor at the time about statistical accuracy. "In my medical opinion they have the flu..." I said "fair enough."

I have had so much more life experience with the medical system since then. I fear I am no longer an easy patient.[;)] But I do pay promptly.[:D]

I remember that study. I think it also traced the genome and based on some way of understanding the difference between the genetic evidence form China and the type found in the states, made an estimate it was both more prevalent in the US and in the US much longer than known in WA.

Hey guys-a quick update regarding my aunt (and Godmother) in Quebec:

After being laid low for two days last week, she is now afebrile and taking food and water. She does not have respiratory signs of disease to speak of, although she is getting passive oxygen supplementation just in case. Tough old bird just may beat this thing. [8D]

She should be being moved back out of hospital again into the transition facility. After 14 days, she will be tested (twice) and, if negative, returned to her nursing home.

That is good to hear CB. I do hope she heals up fully.

That is very good news.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hey guys-a quick update regarding my aunt (and Godmother) in Quebec:

After being laid low for two days last week, she is now afebrile and taking food and water. She does not have respiratory signs of disease to speak of, although she is getting passive oxygen supplementation just in case. Tough old bird just may beat this thing. [8D]

She should be being moved back out of hospital again into the transition facility. After 14 days, she will be tested (twice) and, if negative, returned to her nursing home.

Good news!

We have a 99 year old woman treat positive for Covid at my parents home. She is doing well, but I don't know the treatment of course. She tested positive four to five days ago.

Andre, very glad to hear that news.