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Yes. Irrefutable 'radar returns'. 'Cuz nothing EVER has caused funky radar returns. Ever. OK-maybe that once. But otherwise, radar signatures (and measuring speed from same) is PERFECT.

The problem with the Drake equation is that all the terms multiply. That means that all the errors sum. That means that if even ONE of the terms is a guess, the whole thing is a guess. And, sadly, most of the terms are guesses - and will remain guesses for millions of years. Plausible solutions to the equation range practically from zero to infinity. That's a guess by any definition. So, it's sort of psudeo-science.

I'm more convinced by the Fermi Paradox:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Basically, it says that, while the galaxy is 100,000 light years across, it is 10,000,000,000 years old. So, at any reasonable pace of exploration, it shouldn't take more than a few million years to explore the entire galaxy - no more than only 0.1% of its age. That means that if space-faring worlds are common, we shouldn't exist. Because they wouldn't have just arrived to check out our radio broadcasts, they wouldn't even have arrived late enough to turn us all into fish sticks. They would have gotten here when we were still pond scum. At that point, it would have been absurd for them to decide to wait billions of years for the pond scum to turn into Carl Sagan. Rather, they would have said "Look at all this Living Space" - if we can just get rid of this pond scum!".

This is confirmed by SETI's decades of searching without finding diddly-squat. Millions of years from now, after OUR decendents have terra-formed and colonized the entire galaxy, they'll get a hit everywhere they point their radio telescopes.

The irrefutable Drake formula (it's a ratio, really) is 11:1 drakes:hens. That's about right.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

The Drake equation states that:


where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone);

and

R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
f§¤ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space[5]

R factor

One can question why the number of civilizations should be proportional to the star formation rate, though this makes technical sense. (The product of all the factors except L tells how many new communicating civilizations are born each year. Then you multiply by the lifetime to get the expected number. For example, if an average of 0.01 new civilizations are born each year, and they each last 500 years on the average, then on the average 5 will exist at any time.) The original Drake Equation can be extended to a more realistic model, where the equation uses not the number of stars that are forming now, but those that were forming several billion years ago. The alternate formulation, in terms of the number of stars in the galaxy, is easier to explain and understand, but implicitly assumes the star formation rate is constant over the life of the galaxy.
The number of stars in the galaxy now, N*, is related to the star formation rate R* by
where Tg = the age of the galaxy.Assuming for simplicity that R* is constant, then the Drake equation can be rewritten into an alternate form phrased in terms of the more easily observable value,

The problem with the Drake equation is that all the terms multiply. That means that all the errors sum. That means that if even ONE of the terms is a guess, the whole thing is a guess. And, sadly, most of the terms are guesses - and will remain guesses for millions of years. Plausible solutions to the equation range practically from zero to infinity. That's a guess by any definition. So, it's sort of psudeo-science.

I'm more convinced by the Fermi Paradox:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Basically, it says that, while the galaxy is 100,000 light years across, it is 10,000,000,000 years old. So, at any reasonable pace of exploration, it shouldn't take more than a few million years to explore the entire galaxy - no more than only 0.1% of its age. That means that if space-faring worlds are common, we shouldn't exist. Because they wouldn't have just arrived to check out our radio broadcasts, they wouldn't even have arrived late enough to turn us all into fish sticks. They would have gotten here when we were still pond scum. At that point, it would have been absurd for them to decide to wait billions of years for the pond scum to turn into Carl Sagan. Rather, they would have said "Look at all this Living Space" - if we can just get rid of this pond scum!".

This is confirmed by SETI's decades of searching without finding diddly-squat. Millions of years from now, after OUR decendents have terra-formed and colonized the entire galaxy, they'll get a hit everywhere they point their radio telescopes.

SUPERHEAVY ELEMENTS DISCOVERED
THE DISCOVERY OF ELEMENT 115 PAVES THE WAY TO UNDERSTANDING GRAVITIC CONTROL

Element 115 - Unupentium

Element 115, the key to understanding how the ultra-secret "Black World" has created aircraft capable of manipulating gravity and space/time, has been identified, and the recent discovery of element 118, which decayed into element 114, further helps identify the possibilities.

The most important attribute of this heavier, stable element is that the gravity A wave is so abundant that it actually extends past the perimeter of the atom. These heavier, stable elements literally have their own gravity A field around them, in addition to the gravity B field that is native to all matter.

The Key To Gravity-Control Systems

No naturally occurring atoms on earth have enough protons and neutrons for the cumulative gravity A wave to extend past the perimeter of the atom so you can access it. Now even though the distance that the gravity A wave extends past the perimeter of the atom is infinitesimal, it is accessible and it has amplitude, wave length, and frequency, just like any other wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. Once you can access the gravity A wave, you can amplify it just like we amplify other electromagnetic waves.

And in like manner, the gravity A wave is amplified and then focused on the desired destination to cause the space/time distortion required for practical space travel.

This amplified gravity A wave is so powerful that the only naturally occurring source of gravity that could cause space/time to distort this much would be a black hole.

We're amplifying a wave that barely extends past the perimeter of an atom until it's large enough to distort vast amounts of space/time.

Transmutation

We synthesize heavier, unstable elements by using more stable elements as targets in a particle accelerator. We then bombard the target element with various atomic and sub-atomic particles. By doing this, we actually force neutrons into the nucleus of the atom and in some cases merge two dissimilar nuclei together. At this point, transmutation occurs, making the target element a different, heavier element.

As an example, in the early 80's, the lab for heavy ion research in Darmshtot, Germany synthesized some element 109 by bombarding Bismuth 203 with Iron 59. And to show you how difficult it is to do this, they had to bombard the target element for a week to synthesize 1 atom of element 109. And on that subject, this same lab has projected that in the future they should be able to bombard Curium 248 with with Calcium 48 to yield element 116 which will then decay through a series of nuclides which are unknown to them, but are well known to the scientists at S4 located within the complex of the Groom Lake "Area 51" installation.

The length of time which an element exists before it decays determines its stability. Atoms of some elements decay faster than atoms of other elements, so the faster an element decays, the more unstable that element is considered to be. When an atom decays, it releases or radiates sub-atomic particles and energy, which is the radiation that a Geiger counter detects.

Alien Craft

The reactor found in the alien craft at S4, as widely mentioned by physicist Robert Lazar is primarily based on a superheavy element with an atomic number of 115. Element 115 will be designated as "Ununpentium" according to IUPAC guidelines. Its periodic designation and electron configuration appear in the diagram at the top of the page.

Wednesday, June 9, 1999 Published at 10:52 GMT 11:52 UK

New superheavy elements created

The collision of lead and krypton leads to the new elements.

BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

Two new "superheavy" elements have been made by bombarding lead atoms with energy-packed krypton atoms at the rate of two trillion per second.

After 11 days, the scientists working at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, US, had produced just three atoms of element 118. These contained 118 protons and 175 neutrons each in their nucleii.

The new elements decayed almost instantly to element 116, which itself was short-lived. But, for that brief moment, they were the only three atoms of these elements ever to have existed on Earth.

Ken Gregorich, the nuclear chemist who led the discovery team, said: "Our unexpected success in producing these superheavy elements opens up a whole world of possibilities using similar reactions: new elements and isotopes."

US Secretary of Energy, Bill Richardson, commented: "This stunning discovery opens the door to further insights into the structure of the atomic nucleus."

Unstable combination

Atoms consist of a central nucleus surrounded by a cloud of electrons. The nucleus consists of protons and neutrons.

But not all combinations of neutrons and protons are stable. In nature, no element heavier than uranium, with 92 protons and 146 neutrons, can normally be found.

Scientists can make heavier ones by colliding two large nuclei together and hoping that they will form a new, heavier nucleus for a short time.

One of the most significant aspects of the new elements is that their decay sequence is consistent with theories that predict an "island of stability" for atoms containing approximately 114 protons and 184 neutrons.

"We jumped over a sea of instability onto an island of stability that theories have been predicting since the 1970s," said nuclear physicist Victor Ninov. He is the first author of a paper on the discovery submitted to Physical Review Letters journal.

Atomic structure

Synthetic elements are often short-lived, but provide scientists with valuable insights into the structure of atomic nuclei. They also offer opportunities to study the chemical properties of the elements heavier than uranium.

I-Yang Lee, scientific director of the atom smasher at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, said "From the discovery of these two new superheavy elements, it is now clear that the island of stability can be reached.

"Additionally, similar reactions can be used to produce other elements and isotopes, providing a rich new region for the study of nuclear properties."

Fast work

Element 118 takes less than a thousandth of a second to decay by emitting an alpha particle. This leaves behind an isotope of element 116 which contains 116 protons and 173 neutrons.

This daughter is also radioactive, alpha-decaying to an isotope of element 114.

The chain of successive alpha decays continues until at least element 106.

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN


(My bubble was only burst when I merged my pimp-juice with her Code of Life) [:'(]


Now class, lets examine the power source of the beautiful alien spaceship. Silly parruski-Newblette, pay attention or Ill let the girls dip your pigtails in ink;

SUPERHEAVY ELEMENTS DISCOVERED
THE DISCOVERY OF ELEMENT 115 PAVES THE WAY TO UNDERSTANDING GRAVITIC CONTROL

Element 115 - Unupentium

Element 115, the key to understanding how the ultra-secret "Black World" has created aircraft capable of manipulating gravity and space/time, has been identified, and the recent discovery of element 118, which decayed into element 114, further helps identify the possibilities.

The most important attribute of this heavier, stable element is that the gravity A wave is so abundant that it actually extends past the perimeter of the atom. These heavier, stable elements literally have their own gravity A field around them, in addition to the gravity B field that is native to all matter.

The Key To Gravity-Control Systems

No naturally occurring atoms on earth have enough protons and neutrons for the cumulative gravity A wave to extend past the perimeter of the atom so you can access it. Now even though the distance that the gravity A wave extends past the perimeter of the atom is infinitesimal, it is accessible and it has amplitude, wave length, and frequency, just like any other wave in the electromagnetic spectrum. Once you can access the gravity A wave, you can amplify it just like we amplify other electromagnetic waves.

And in like manner, the gravity A wave is amplified and then focused on the desired destination to cause the space/time distortion required for practical space travel.

This amplified gravity A wave is so powerful that the only naturally occurring source of gravity that could cause space/time to distort this much would be a black hole.

We're amplifying a wave that barely extends past the perimeter of an atom until it's large enough to distort vast amounts of space/time.

Transmutation

We synthesize heavier, unstable elements by using more stable elements as targets in a particle accelerator. We then bombard the target element with various atomic and sub-atomic particles. By doing this, we actually force neutrons into the nucleus of the atom and in some cases merge two dissimilar nuclei together. At this point, transmutation occurs, making the target element a different, heavier element.

As an example, in the early 80's, the lab for heavy ion research in Darmshtot, Germany synthesized some element 109 by bombarding Bismuth 203 with Iron 59. And to show you how difficult it is to do this, they had to bombard the target element for a week to synthesize 1 atom of element 109. And on that subject, this same lab has projected that in the future they should be able to bombard Curium 248 with with Calcium 48 to yield element 116 which will then decay through a series of nuclides which are unknown to them, but are well known to the scientists at S4 located within the complex of the Groom Lake "Area 51" installation.

The length of time which an element exists before it decays determines its stability. Atoms of some elements decay faster than atoms of other elements, so the faster an element decays, the more unstable that element is considered to be. When an atom decays, it releases or radiates sub-atomic particles and energy, which is the radiation that a Geiger counter detects.

Alien Craft

The reactor found in the alien craft at S4, as widely mentioned by physicist Robert Lazar is primarily based on a superheavy element with an atomic number of 115. Element 115 will be designated as "Ununpentium" according to IUPAC guidelines. Its periodic designation and electron configuration appear in the diagram at the top of the page.

Wednesday, June 9, 1999 Published at 10:52 GMT 11:52 UK

New superheavy elements created

The collision of lead and krypton leads to the new elements.

BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

Two new "superheavy" elements have been made by bombarding lead atoms with energy-packed krypton atoms at the rate of two trillion per second.

After 11 days, the scientists working at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, US, had produced just three atoms of element 118. These contained 118 protons and 175 neutrons each in their nucleii.

The new elements decayed almost instantly to element 116, which itself was short-lived. But, for that brief moment, they were the only three atoms of these elements ever to have existed on Earth.

Ken Gregorich, the nuclear chemist who led the discovery team, said: "Our unexpected success in producing these superheavy elements opens up a whole world of possibilities using similar reactions: new elements and isotopes."

US Secretary of Energy, Bill Richardson, commented: "This stunning discovery opens the door to further insights into the structure of the atomic nucleus."

Unstable combination

Atoms consist of a central nucleus surrounded by a cloud of electrons. The nucleus consists of protons and neutrons.

But not all combinations of neutrons and protons are stable. In nature, no element heavier than uranium, with 92 protons and 146 neutrons, can normally be found.

Scientists can make heavier ones by colliding two large nuclei together and hoping that they will form a new, heavier nucleus for a short time.

One of the most significant aspects of the new elements is that their decay sequence is consistent with theories that predict an "island of stability" for atoms containing approximately 114 protons and 184 neutrons.

"We jumped over a sea of instability onto an island of stability that theories have been predicting since the 1970s," said nuclear physicist Victor Ninov. He is the first author of a paper on the discovery submitted to Physical Review Letters journal.

Atomic structure

Synthetic elements are often short-lived, but provide scientists with valuable insights into the structure of atomic nuclei. They also offer opportunities to study the chemical properties of the elements heavier than uranium.

I-Yang Lee, scientific director of the atom smasher at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, said "From the discovery of these two new superheavy elements, it is now clear that the island of stability can be reached.

"Additionally, similar reactions can be used to produce other elements and isotopes, providing a rich new region for the study of nuclear properties."

Fast work

Element 118 takes less than a thousandth of a second to decay by emitting an alpha particle. This leaves behind an isotope of element 116 which contains 116 protons and 173 neutrons.

This daughter is also radioactive, alpha-decaying to an isotope of element 114.

The chain of successive alpha decays continues until at least element 106.

"when I merged my pimp-juice with her Code of Life", I would like to see the final product.

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

The Drake formula only proves the probability which is close enough for me.[/color]

No doubt the aliens already have more than enough Lebensraum so it wasnt necessary to conquer primitive planets such as ours.

SETI is only a few decades old. Not enough time to verify diddly-squat.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Gents can I politely ask that you continue this discussion on a separate thread please?

Many thanks.

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Gents can I politely ask that you continue this discussion on a separate thread please?

Many thanks.

Well of course, Lord Master of Hijacking Threads, you may very well ask, but I couldn't possibly give a positive response.

warspite1

That response was as boring as it was predicatable

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Gents can I politely ask that you continue this discussion on a separate thread please?

Many thanks.

Well of course, Lord Master of Hijacking Threads, you may very well ask, but I couldn't possibly give a positive response.[:D]

warspite1

That response was as boring as it was predicatable [8|]

It's simply an attempt to put a scientific facade on a guess.

How can the Drake equation prove anything if its plausible solutions range from 0 to infinity?

There's never enough. Think how we're going to proceed: Our decendants are going to spend the next 50 million years exploring, terraforming, and colonizing the entire galaxy (isn't that a thrilling idea!). But even that is only a tiny fraction of the galaxy's age. That means that whichever space-faring civ pops up first wins the entire galaxy. Late-comers have no chance.

After our descendents colonize the entire galaxy SETI will get a hit anywhere they point their telescopes. It won't take decades to find a hit - it will only take a few minutes. That's why we know that that sort of colonization hasn't happened yet. The galaxy sounds like a wilderness - as far as radio com is concerned.

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski



Well of course, Lord Master of Hijacking Threads, you may very well ask, but I couldn't possibly give a positive response.[:D]

warspite1

That response was as boring as it was predicatable [8|]

Soooo, Mr.Let's keep THIS thread on track, do you have a post about a program/film/documentary or conspiracy theory you care to share?

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

That response was as boring as it was predicatable [8|]

Soooo, Mr.Let's keep THIS thread on track, do you have a post about a program/film/documentary or conspiracy theory you care to share?

warspite1

Nope - but I do have a program/film/documentary I wish to share:

Coronation Street 7.30 and 8.30 tomorrow night. What is going to happen to poor Tyrone? [:(]

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski



Soooo, Mr.Let's keep THIS thread on track, do you have a post about a program/film/documentary or conspiracy theory you care to share?

warspite1

Nope - but I do have a program/film/documentary I wish to share:

Coronation Street 7.30 and 8.30 tomorrow night. What is going to happen to poor Tyrone? [:(]

PRISON.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: parusski

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Nope - but I do have a program/film/documentary I wish to share:

Coronation Street 7.30 and 8.30 tomorrow night. What is going to happen to poor Tyrone? [:(]

PRISON.

warspite1

Let's hope not [:(] - that Kirsty needs what's coming to her [:@]

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

Whose ship is this?? The Greys? The Zeta's? Kilngons? Borg?? Who could this be??!

A Cloaked Alien Spaceship Orbiting Mercury?
http://news.discovery.com/space/is-that ... 111208.htm