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Interdiction:

One tidbit you can see below. Not only did Goering's finest penetrate into the operational battlespace and interdict a tank corps but the information gained was critical. The Soviet's do not have a plethora of Tank Corps and our flyboys were able to identify the 6th Tank Corps.

Eventually during their turn they moved the 18th panzer division backwards .. a couple of details to observe .. when the Soviets want to concentrate they can bring a thousand plus "tubes" to the fray. On first glance the tank losses might seem lopsided but in this battle the 88's I believe made a real difference although they were sacrificed to the Soviet artillery. The manpower losses were about equal.

In our go Centre continues its drive East reaching the Para river and the source of the Voronezh river. The advance has now widened to 70 miles. Initial resistance comes from brigades or weak divisions but after piercing several lines, we come up against their tank corps, cavalry corps and guards. It appears centre is now facing the entire top units of the red army. However, fortification levels are distinctly lower.

One product of the gambit on Turn 46, the Soviets did pivot southwards of the rail line with some strong units. For the cost of 3 nerfed panzer divisions now low on fuel and supplies, the panzers in reserve accomplished their goals. The 4th Panzer army took advantage of and moved forward to the Para river from the rail line and north. The key was a request by Reichsmarshal Telemecus who suggested they needed a staging base within fighter range of Gorky. It was clear this was doable with a focused effort of 4th Panzer Army and elements of the 2nd Panzer Army. The picture below shows the final position. The Luftwaffe attack many targets escorted by fighters, and deal the Soviets death from the sky.

One piece of intelligence gained from the "big push" was the notable weakness of the 5th line of the bulge. Fort levels hardly over 0.5 and multiple units from different commands stacked together in an attempt to show strength. It has now become apparent that the first real clear turns if we push hard the German's can make huge breakouts vs a very weak backline. It is also clear that we can focus the forces to penetrate 5 lines deep.

The powers have asked AGC to clear out the Oka Basin. The map below shows the axis of attack. This will shorten the line and clear a rail of pesky Soviet ZOC's. The weather will not cooperate for a few turns ..

Would leave you with a secure northern flank with rivers if your plan is to go static up there?

ORIGINAL: Colbert

Would leave you with a secure northern flank with rivers if your plan is to go static up there?

Certainly that opens that possibility, but at this point AGC is only thinking of concentrating forces to penatrate 5 layers of Soviets. Putting weak units defending the major river enables my morale 80+ to attack! As it is .. things develop a little differently ...

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Eventually during their turn they moved the 18th panzer division backwards .. a couple of details to observe .. when the Soviets want to concentrate they can bring a thousand plus "tubes" to the fray. On first glance the tank losses might seem lopsided but in this battle the 88's I believe made a real difference although they were sacrificed to the Soviet artillery. The manpower losses were about equal.

Where did the German heavy artillery/Stukas go after Sevastopol fell? Did you disperse them?

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Eventually during their turn they moved the 18th panzer division backwards .. a couple of details to observe .. when the Soviets want to concentrate they can bring a thousand plus "tubes" to the fray. On first glance the tank losses might seem lopsided but in this battle the 88's I believe made a real difference although they were sacrificed to the Soviet artillery. The manpower losses were about equal.

Where did the German heavy artillery/Stukas go after Sevastopol fell? Did you disperse them?

Actually the heavy art moved its way back into OKH. The Stukas are in National Reserve waiting for clear weather.
I will bring out the heavy stuff for a couple of special missions starting turn 53 ..

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The turns do not exist anymore and thus it takes a lot of time to construct meaning from the archives. However, the battle result below shows how the German's at this point have the Soviet's blind. Recon that flies .. dies

To provide some context, the VVS in Week 47 had grown to levels not seen since the first weeks of the war. Nearly 6,300 aircraft were available within the Soviet force structure, among these were over 300 recon aircraft.

Week 47 saw 15 soviet recon missions that included 46 recon aircraft of which 22 were shot down.




The assertion that the Soviets were made blind is simply not true. Soviet recon assets are more limited in quantity relative to other aircraft types, so they are used only when and where needed. In this particular case, recon missions were needed to identify location, type, and strength of underlying Luftwaffe assets in the center of the front. That mission was accomplished.

Included in Soviet analysis of Luftwaffe strength were identification of flak concentrations as well as areas of more intense air interdiction. Knowing and documenting flak concentrations allowed the VVS to target areas for ground attack where weaker AA concentrations were prevalent. Here was a sample analysis from week 48.

Do the white numbers literally represent numbers of 88mm guns counted? Are these taken from the battle reports, so there could be one could be counted twice in different numbers? So they are counts of 88mm that have fired at least once in that area?

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Included in Soviet analysis of Luftwaffe strength were identification of flak concentrations as well as areas of more intense air interdiction. Knowing and documenting flak concentrations allowed the VVS to target areas for ground attack where weaker AA concentrations were prevalent. Here was a sample analysis from week 48.

This is interesting. One thing that might be gleaned from this is that recon missions even if everybody is shot down .. still gives information.

Besides Telemecus inquiry ..

My concentration of 88's has nothing strategic in mind as far as airpower but I can now see huge strategic implications of my tactics. up
My concentration of 88's are more focused on matching up with your (EvK's) T34's. The German superman Pz III J's and H's are no match for the T34. This was a source of debate for the German side. If you break things down I calculated about 60 devices full strength (T34/KV1) that the 50mm gun could not reasonably affect. There are 635 devices/squads that could matched up against any one of my devices/squads. Assuming independent trials, each 88mm shot had a 16% shot of engaging an AFV and about 9% of engaging something my AFV's cannot affect. That is assuming full strength. That is also not assuming all those additional tubes that support units add to the fray. However, from the big picture perspective we got a good sizable number of T34's.
One thing that is not on your map is the 20mm quads. They are quite effective vs Cavalry and was the mainstay of resistance during the winter. The 20mm quad is also effective vs IL2's ...more than 88mm ..


Too bad the game broke up .. It is clear by that map that you all were maturing a strategy and put a great deal of time into it ...

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Do the white numbers literally represent numbers of 88mm guns counted? Are these taken from the battle reports, so there could be one could be counted twice in different numbers? So they are counts of 88mm that have fired at least once in that area?

It came from battle reports that counted how many 88's fired at a recon mission flown at that specific hex.

So in effect mapping where flak is to then plot where viable or good flight paths are - and then positioning airbases relative to what you want to recon, or hit with combat aircraft? Given the increased importance of flak this might be the new thing all intense games have to do?

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Do the white numbers literally represent numbers of 88mm guns counted? Are these taken from the battle reports, so there could be one could be counted twice in different numbers? So they are counts of 88mm that have fired at least once in that area?

It came from battle reports that counted how many 88's fired at a recon mission flown at that specific hex.

The battle reports for ground encounters will give you another data point for the LW flak loaded into Corps HQ’s. Although they move to the next highest HQ is not locked. We tended to let it drift upwards move HQ and then reassign.

If you had not noticed, I flew subsequent recon in the hot flak area with the shorter range U-2R bi-plane. These were a preferred plane to lose as it was less valuable and was just another step in refining the tactical use of aircraft.

I think the old team was close to turning the page on the air war. Losses of fighter planes were becoming manageable and equally important the quantities were sufficient that a fresh group of them were ready to be introduced at Gorky, along with the level bombers of Long Range Air Command.

At the end of turn 17, this was the Soviet fighter situation. As a coherent force, it had effectively been destroyed.




You can see two out of three fighters were antiquated I-types. By week 47 those same I-types comprised only thirteen percent of available fighters.

It sounds like you all had the Soviet Air Force on the right track! In my opinion you all just needed to move more good units in the North to face better German units and maybe find a better defensive line. The last turn had quite a few units isolated. A few cav units in the center..

Still I thought it was a very competitive game with much to learn from the situation.

Which flights occurred in which sequence is one of the hardest things to backward induct - so not got there yet.

Ultimately the Soviet air force had to recover and we could see how you were working to accelerate that. The key thing I think of course was making sure the fighter bombers factories were left to produce fully. The only way we could prevent the recovery would be to get at them again ....

I thought I would post the interdictions in the center. The picture below shows the Luftwaffe extending air power into the operational battlespace. I am not sure of the impact. But we did get some information on enemy intended movements.