Lothos wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 11:04 am
Jazon, first thank you for taking your time and making these changes etc.... I do have some questions and feedback but before I do I would like for you to take down the link to your changes.
I am ok with people making changes to the mod for personal use or for use in a private MP game.
However, changes to the mod itself and then making them public is not something I approve unless you are going to make so many changes that the differences between your mod and my mod are so different that you can't even tell you used my mod as a starting point. Even then I would like for people to ask me for permission.
With that said, lets go over some of your ideas
Secondary Supply points, you are correct I should add some in and it was an oversight by me.
Re-arranging the units, the issue I have here is that it is not historically accurate. The current Polish starting layout is close to the historical layout they had and their locations. I did some research and found maps of the 1939 invasion and the locations of the units.
What I found interesting in your OOB is that you added a second HQ. I have not downloaded and installed your version but what HQ did you add and was that leader performed at the time the Germans invaded Poland. If so many that is something we can add in as leaders do make things harder for the opposite side.
Hi,
I am sorry, I didn't want to do any harm, I made only slight changes, only as a voice in discussion. If you want I will delete a link, no problem.
I played with myself eight times, checking what outcome I can get.
Changes I made:
I moved German XVII Core from mountain in Carpathian to a railroad and road behind the other German core. I did it because even if this location is geographically accurate It doesn't make sense in game logic - this unit exit point for offensive is rather awkward. In East Prussia I move Kongisberg garrison to Johannesburg. German North eastern flank was covered by two fortress Brigades "Goldap" and "Lotzen", so equivalent of a garrison is good I guess. I didn't add any units to the Germans, because I was aware it may have some effect on further game balance. I checked the positions you made for Germans and you got pretty accurate! (There is small mistake, in East Prussia there is "Wodrig" Corps, you must have misspell writing (it's WDDRIG), but it doesn't matter much.
As for the Poles i redeploy some of the units, and add some independent infantry divisions, and I will explain why later, but In terms of quantity I didn't <puff> the forces from nowhere.
Back in the days, before I got my first PC, we used to play tabletop games with, just like SC, but you now, tokens and dice. There was whole system published, also I was very interested in the topic, so actually I remember all the positions of almost each Division on Polish side. However when you put something in higher scale, you need to make compromises, so I understand it won't be 100% accurate. I also know, you can't put everything in the game, because the mechanics is not perfect. How to calculate the strength of both sides?
The easiest way is to calculate divisions. Without getting to much into historical details, Polish infantry Divisions were almost equal to German Infantry division. The big difference in favor of Germans were motorized and armored divisions and of course air force. That's the one way to calculate it. And current quantity of Polish army is under calculated, because Germans got a core unit (for two or three divisions), while Poles got core unit for an ARMY(which in case of Modlin, Karpaty and Narew has sense, because they had two divisions, but other armies had from 4 to even 7 infantry divisons, and they are still represented as a core.) Also as a minor their units are weaker, so it gives another bonus for Germans. While actually in Infantry divisions German first wave (37Inf plus 1 Mountain) was equal to Polish (38 Divisions, 1 Mountain). Later, due to polish resistance, German Command were forced to put in strategic reserves, consisting additional infantry divisions. Now, if Germans decide to put their strategic reserves into fight in 1939, why we are giving them a baby walk in the game? Last polish troops surrendered on October 6th, Warsaw capitulated on 28th of September, the biggest battle at Bzura river was from 9.09 to 17.09, the second biggest battle at TomaszΓ³w Lubelski(actually two battles)17.09-20.09; and 22-27.09, plus many more other clashes. Germans were 100% involved till end of the September. Why we let them win in two turns, without much effort(from player) and loses (in strength points)?
Other way, to give players the impression of what happened, is to model the situation, according to game mechanics, that the German player and Allied Player face the same challenges the both sides had in September of 1939. This is what I tried to achieve. Main German idea at the original Fall Weiss plan is to close the "small pincers" around polish armed forces west to Vistula river in first 10 days of the operation. However, due to polish resistance, and retreat, they changed the concept during the fight, and decide to do the "big pincers" east to Vistula River, and this is why Guderian XIX core move towards Eastern Prussia and attacked west to Bialystok. In most games I've seen on youtube, German player will never do it, because he doesn't need to. Also Poles never had the opportunity to counterattack, as they did in battle of Bzura(the arrow i made on the pic).
I added divisions for Poland, one in Pomerania corridor, and one at the coast. They were there, one from "Pomorze" army (9th division) and Costal force made of Navy land forces. This will force German player either to directly attack and clear the coast, or go to Bydgoszcz. This way, you can't have both in one turn. In south, Germans could either take Cracov or Lodz in the first turn, but they can't have both. The same in the North, Germans can either seize Torun or Mlawa(fortification) position. The outcome is, Germans need to try to cut out as much as they can Polish forces in the west, because otherwise they will retreat to Warsaw, where they can resist for longer time. Even if Wehrmacht do so, as you would see, it will still give Poles some space to maneuver in the centre. And this is exactly what have happened.
Additional HQ (gen. Kutrzeba) in the centre, represents, what Poles did on September 9th, when commander of Poznan Army took command of Pomorze Army and other tnits, formed two-army Task Force; and using 8 divisions and 3 cavalry brigades counterattacked German flank near Lodz, in purpose to relieve Warsaw from approaching German 10th Army. Poles used in that battle more then 1k of field guns, and routed German 30th Inf Division. German pressure on Warsaw ceased, because Wehrmacht needed to turn back forces from Warsaw to fight gen. Kutrzeba.
Additional HQ is needed reinforce Poles in the middle. Also Poles mobilized 40 division and 1 mln people to fight, with officers and HQs. Representing this in one HQ unit doesn't seem proportional to me, when German side have two HQs.
But all that are details, and I could discuss it a lot, but that's not the point. Main point is, also as Taxman66 said, that in multiplayer, Poland is too easy, which is a)historically not correct b) gives the German player opportunity to attack the low countries in late winter /early spring 1940. My main idea is to fix it. How to do it is another thing. I deeply respect the amount of work you have put in this MOD(which is great!), so I was only giving an idea to make it better. Final decision is up to you, because you are the manager of this project. If you consider it a bad idea, it's fine, you know best, because you designed this Mod from beginning, and you know all the consequences with scripts, force balance etc.
Cheers all!
Jazon
) to do this but 3 U-boats showed up to to raid the Canadians after the US Exclusion Zone is up.