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ORIGINAL: obvert

Just a quick post on this OT event. Sebastian was born on May 11 at 21:53 in London. Everyone is now home and healthy, napping actually. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: Lowpe



These are the questions that need answering I think. I tend to think it is a combination of factors, but then which of those factors is most meaningful? For example CR mentions density:

Interestingly, Seoul's population density is almost twice that of New York City, four times higher than Los Angeles and eight times higher than the density of Rome.

Diet? Past experience with viral outbreaks? How about effectiveness of local govt? Life cycle of the virus?

Here is a study from Canada:

Canadian study finds temperature, latitude not associated with COVID-19 spread


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 083551.htm

A new study finds that temperature and latitude do not appear to be associated with the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), but school closures and other public health measures are having a positive effect.

--
BTW, This is the 3rd source I have seen that mentions closing schools to have a positive effect.

The gold standard of mortality won’t be available for a year or two. At that time you will be able to determine a simple number. Using years and years of historical records you determine two numbers. How many people were expected to die in 2020 In a a world without Covid, against how many actually did. Subtract one from the other and you have “excess mortality”. That is how many were killed, by all causes, from Covid. All causes: Covid, suicide, delayed medical care, people that should have gone to a doctor but didn’t, ect

With all due respect, that number you cited-the 'excess mortality' number gleaned in the future won't directly address COVID deaths alone. As we are all finding out, deaths caused by suicide, depression, alcohol or drug abuse, physical abuse, delayed surgeries, etc. aren't directly attributable to COVID, but our response to COVID. It is entirely possible that our overzealous response may have put more people in harms' way than it has saved. We need to be able to suss this number from the COVID-specific deaths to have meaningful insight into how to deal with these things in the future. Assigning our self-wrought troubles (and ALL 'excess mortality') to COVID would be too simplistic.

ORIGINAL: obvert

Just a quick post on this OT event. Sebastian was born on May 11 at 21:53 in London. Everyone is now home and healthy, napping actually. [:)]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Early in this thread, there was a chart posted showing transmissibility (Ro) vs. lethality of Covid-19. It showed the same rates for other infectious diseases, including the 1918 Spanish flu-type. My recollection is that the chart (this is at least two months ago) indicated Covid-19 was more transmissible but less lethal than the 1918 flu.

At that time, Covid's Ro was estimated, I believe, at around 2.5 or 2.8. Lethality was then above 1%.

I assume the Ro has remained the same, but through countermeasures the "manipulated" Ro has dropped below 1.0 for about 90% of the states and for the country as a whole and for most other nations. And lethality is somewhere closer to 0.1%, much less than estimated early on.

I'd be interested to see that chart again and any analysis into how the estimated rates might've changed since. How does it compare to 1918 now?

Overall, we met the early objective of flattening the curve. The Ro rate has proven susceptible to countermeasures. We've begun easing them, in some cases as much as a month ago. And thus far the results are very promising. The main problems continue to be confined to limited areas, in many cases in jurisdictions that haven't begun easing. In those that have, flare ups have been limited.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Our mall is just a couple of miles down the road. For many years, I've routinely taken my lunch there, purchased a large unsweet ice tea, and read while eating. I resumed doing so last week, after a six-week Covid-hiatus. At first, there was next to nobody in the food court or in line at the vendors. Today was noticeably, remarkably more busy. People are definitely much more active. As best I can tell, there remains a wariness and caution about the wheels possibly coming off. Set against that feeling is an increasing confidence in returning to a more active work- and lifestyle. People are careful and polite in maintaining social distancing and being courteous. All restaurant employees wear masks. Only a few customers do - probably less than ten percent. Nursing homes and assisted living facilities remain on lockdown.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Our mall is just a couple of miles down the road. For many years, I've routinely taken my lunch there, purchased a large unsweet ice tea, and read while eating. I resumed doing so last week, after a six-week Covid-hiatus. At first, there was next to nobody in the food court or in line at the vendors. Today was noticeably, remarkably more busy. People are definitely much more active. As best I can tell, there remains a wariness and caution about the wheels possibly coming off. Set against that feeling is an increasing confidence in returning to a more active work- and lifestyle. People are careful and polite in maintaining social distancing and being courteous. All restaurant employees wear masks. Only a few customers do - probably less than ten percent. Nursing homes and assisted living facilities remain on lockdown.

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Our mall is just a couple of miles down the road. For many years, I've routinely taken my lunch there, purchased a large unsweet ice tea, and read while eating. I resumed doing so last week, after a six-week Covid-hiatus. At first, there was next to nobody in the food court or in line at the vendors. Today was noticeably, remarkably more busy. People are definitely much more active. As best I can tell, there remains a wariness and caution about the wheels possibly coming off. Set against that feeling is an increasing confidence in returning to a more active work- and lifestyle. People are careful and polite in maintaining social distancing and being courteous. All restaurant employees wear masks. Only a few customers do - probably less than ten percent. Nursing homes and assisted living facilities remain on lockdown.

I hope I’m wrong and leaving politics aside I honestly feel that there is a strong current of “ contrary for the sake of being contrary” in this country. Folks may put a patriotic face on it but I am truly afraid that said contrary streak is going to get us in an awful lot of trouble this time. This microbe is heartless, mindless, unrelenting and doesn’t give a fig if you are blue or red or white or brown or what courts or Governors or TV pundits or newspapers say. It will stop when the virus says it stops and if we do nothing or little we will reap the whirlwind. Time will prove me right or wrong. I sincerely hope I am wrong

ORIGINAL: CanoerebelThe press is probably misrepresenting the situation, at least as it exists here.

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn



SO..... ~98% of people will not die from CV19?!

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth



The gold standard of mortality won’t be available for a year or two. At that time you will be able to determine a simple number. Using years and years of historical records you determine two numbers. How many people were expected to die in 2020 In a a world without Covid, against how many actually did. Subtract one from the other and you have “excess mortality”. That is how many were killed, by all causes, from Covid. All causes: Covid, suicide, delayed medical care, people that should have gone to a doctor but didn’t, ect

With all due respect, that number you cited-the 'excess mortality' number gleaned in the future won't directly address COVID deaths alone. As we are all finding out, deaths caused by suicide, depression, alcohol or drug abuse, physical abuse, delayed surgeries, etc. aren't directly attributable to COVID, but our response to COVID. It is entirely possible that our overzealous response may have put more people in harms' way than it has saved. We need to be able to suss this number from the COVID-specific deaths to have meaningful insight into how to deal with these things in the future. Assigning our self-wrought troubles (and ALL 'excess mortality') to COVID would be too simplistic.

Although, few are looking for the lives saved by lockdowns. I posted two separate studies a while back on lives saved due to pollution reduction and less traffic on the roads and fewer accidents. In CA alone fatal accidents were halved over the period measured. In the study on pollution in Europe an estimated 11,000+ lives were saved/extended during the month of study due to lower pollution rates, and other health conditions like asthma and early term births were lessened as well.

There are possibly more reasons people might be less vulnerable to certain causes of death in lockdown. Those should all be part of the count too.

So far worldwide suicides are tracking normally, as I posted in the same area.

Due to the connection between Covid and heart conditions that one is going to be hard to sort out in the end. Possibly also other underlying conditions where someone never was tested for Covid but died of another cause, yet had the virus.

It's all a big mess, but very complex.

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I hope I’m wrong and leaving politics aside I honestly feel that there is a strong current of “ contrary for the sake of being contrary” in this country. Folks may put a patriotic face on it but I am truly afraid that said contrary streak is going to get us in an awful lot of trouble this time. This microbe is heartless, mindless, unrelenting and doesn’t give a fig if you are blue or red or white or brown or what courts or Governors or TV pundits or newspapers say. It will stop when the virus says it stops and if we do nothing or little we will reap the whirlwind. Time will prove me right or wrong. I sincerely hope I am wrong