Matrix Games Forums

The SCTF composition is an interesting point, there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. I wish I knew the answer as well!

One thing I would say though; if you know there are cruisers there why would you send in a bombardment group? You are putting them at a disadvantage right off the bat; even if they get good rolls what's the purpose in a bombardment at this stage... damaged facilities... destroyed airframes? Is that really worth fighting a sea battle at a disadvantage you don't have to accept? Surely it's better to devote today into clearing out the enemy covering forces and then using bombardment when you think you might meet ships, not when you know you will meet them...

The main value of Akyab is to bring in supplies. Even if you damage the facilities he can still bring in ships, they just unload slower; and if he has the normal number of Allied engineers there any damage will be repaired quickly anyway.

I would phase it so that I drove off the covering forces, then bombardment to cripple the airfield, and then airpower to keep it closed with bombardments thrown in to help. I'm assuming you have at least 1 AKE at PB to keep the big boys rolling.

ORIGINAL: kjnoel


One thing I would say though; if you know there are cruisers there why would you send in a bombardment group? You are putting them at a disadvantage right off the bat; even if they get good rolls what's the purpose in a bombardment at this stage... damaged facilities... destroyed airframes? Is that really worth fighting a sea battle at a disadvantage you don't have to accept? Surely it's better to devote today into clearing out the enemy covering forces and then using bombardment when you think you might meet ships, not when you know you will meet them...

The main value of Akyab is to bring in supplies. Even if you damage the facilities he can still bring in ships, they just unload slower; and if he has the normal number of Allied engineers there any damage will be repaired quickly anyway.

I would phase it so that I drove off the covering forces, then bombardment to cripple the airfield, and then airpower to keep it closed with bombardments thrown in to help. I'm assuming you have at least 1 AKE at PB to keep the big boys rolling.

+1. Especially the bit about not bombarding when there are enemy combatants sitting in the hex. If they are cruisers, you stand the chance of encountering them either on the way in (die rolls against you because you're in a bombardment TF) or on the way out (your ships likely "winchester" on main batteries). The former would be disadvantageous, the latter disastrous.

If you want to kill enemy ships then kill enemy ships. You won't get a risk-free bombardment option / opportunity until they've been dealt with.

What I am saying is that I think the first time should be to KILL ships. When we did this about 6 weeks ago in game time a cruiser TF held off my BBs due to it being a bombardment mission. I'd like to SMASH the ships protecting the base and then bombard on the next run. The question is more specifically addressed to whether or not the BBs should be grouped in one big TF or two.

Hi John,

What guarantee do you have that he won't have ships there after your first "go" at Akyab? Couldn't he have some SCTF rotation there? You damage Allied CA "X", he withdraws it. Next turn, he replaces it with another capable defense.

Your assumption that you will clear opposition and keep it cleared until your bombardment group goes in is flawed. Consider what you're doing with the Tojos-sweep, sweep and sweep some more. SCTF, SCTF and SCTF some more if you want to clear Akyab.

As far as the secondary question of TF construction, I have no issues with a mixed (same speed-ish) TF consisting of 1-2 BB, 1-2 CA, a CL and 4-5 DDs. Others have professions of faith for keeping similar caliber (and engagement envelope) guns together-hence ONLY BBs and DDs or ONLY CAs and DDs to avoid the disparate engagements that can result from having multiple engagement envelopes.

Hey Chickenman.

I cannot keep it cleared but I can darned well sink some cruisers. Think I'll do a combination. How about sending in Nagato--Mutsu and escorts as a STF followed by the other BBs as a Bombardment Group. The Bigger Boys blast away at shipping present while others bombard. The CVEs will provide LRCAP for the TFs as they approach and pull back. Will not fool around. It will be a HIGH Speed attack run. Get them in and get them out AT NIGHT!

My opponent is seriously fixated on the 21st ID. Another Deliberate Attack on the 23rd with the same 1-2 result. Disruption in that fine ID goes DOWN from the previous day and inflicts 2-1 in casualties upon the Allies. Four units will enter the hex tomorrow and greatly aid the ID.

He has managed to BLAST the 33rd and 2nd TK into a lot of disruption. A total of 122 bombers hit those units today. Not inflicting a lot of casualties but disruption is moving up into the 70s. Am two days from the Aussies and I may have to abort this and pull back to Magwe if things don't improve next turn.

Flew a set of excellent Sweeps against Akyab today. Three Tojo Sentai went in and CRUSHED Allied fighters (4 Tj for 26 Allied). Will he EVER run out of fighters in those pools?!!!

Headed to work. Won't be back for another turn for 5-6 hours. Any more commentary regarding the BBs or anything else shall be appreciated.

BIG PS: He is really reconning the HELL out of the bases around Port Moresby. Merauke, Milne, Terapo, etc... I think the hammer is about to be thrown and I TRULY hope I have guessed right. I know it shall be MASSIVE, he will not retreat, he will take HUGE losses and he will not care.

He has managed to BLAST the 33rd and 2nd TK into a lot of disruption. Not inflicting a lot of casualties but disruption is moving up into the 70s. Am two days from the Aussies and I may have to abort this and pull back to Magwe if things don't improve next turn.

What does blast refer to? Is this air strikes? Are you moving in move mode or combat mode?

Love a good nail biter!

ORIGINAL: obvert

He has managed to BLAST the 33rd and 2nd TK into a lot of disruption. Not inflicting a lot of casualties but disruption is moving up into the 70s. Am two days from the Aussies and I may have to abort this and pull back to Magwe if things don't improve next turn.

What does blast refer to? Is this air strikes? Are you moving in move mode or combat mode?

Combat Mode.

Dan doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING in our email exchanges so I made a proposal:

Those boys are eating their wheaties after being hit 5 days in a row! Tough guys and DID NOT Mean the last turn it means over the last week of time. Maybe we should open a joint thread where things CAN be said to each without crisis? I want to be able to have back-and-forth for fun but I feel like NOTHING can EVER be said. I’ve been pretty good about but sometimes things brought up that are in the past still, evidently, fit the don’t talk about mold. Not angry—just frustrated--here and proposing an idea.

Here is a resend of the files.

Headed to work.

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: 10-23

You only sent the combat replay.

We leave on Saturday.

Please don't comment about events that just took place (like 21 Div. "eating their wheaties.")


Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 10:33 am
Subject: 10-23


Here you are. I’ll be back sometime later.

You said you leave for a week on Friday: right?

I think the 21st ID does not deserve all the attention it is getting. WARNING: They eat their wheaties!

My $0.02 worth, if I asked you to not make comments about events in the current turn and you continued to do so, I would terminate the game.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Hey Chickenman.

I cannot keep it cleared but I can darned well sink some cruisers. Think I'll do a combination. How about sending in Nagato--Mutsu and escorts as a STF followed by the other BBs as a Bombardment Group. The Bigger Boys blast away at shipping present while others bombard.

John, I'm sorry, but I must be clear here...

NO NO NO! BAD! BAD! BAD!

This setup MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your SCTF (yay!). It also MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your bombardment TF (oops!). Or your bombardment TF may be disrupted by the presence of enemy shipping (oops!).

Better to sweep with both SCTFs for a day. DO NOT SET THEM TO FOLLOW ONE ANOTHER, as that formula can lead to unintented consequences should one of the TFs withdraw post-engagement.

Certainly DO NOT have the CVEs follow this lot, as they may cycle through the target hex, just in time to be found by an enemy SCTF. They'll gut a CVE TF at night, I can guarantee you.

Can you arrange for some LRCAP from LBA? It's better than nothing and may be sufficient to break up Allied naval strikes.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Flew a set of excellent Sweeps against Akyab today. Three Tojo Sentai went in and CRUSHED Allied fighters (4 Tj for 26 Allied).

This is certainly a positive trend. Very nice. Keep up the good work. I'll take a 4:26 exchange any day of the week. [8D]

Can you post a war-to-date list of airframes lost?

Seems to me his request to have you not reveal things in the turn by mentioning them in the email before he's run it is a fair thing to ask, and that you're having trouble respecting his request. It would certainly bother me if I didn't want that kind of info and wanted to experience the running of the turn with no extra idea of what happened, yet you kept giving it out.

I know you guys have been through a lot together but something in that dialogue above seems odd, like it's gotten antagonistic in a bad way. In such a long process that would be hugely detrimental to my enjoyment of the game. Of course this is all between you guys, and you've been through it before, but I'd have a sit down and get it cleared up before it gets worse.

This is all fine, but how is the caboose looking. A few photos?

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING in our email exchanges so I made a proposal:

Those boys are eating their wheaties after being hit 5 days in a row! Tough guys and DID NOT Mean the last turn it means over the last week of time. Maybe we should open a joint thread where things CAN be said to each without crisis? I want to be able to have back-and-forth for fun but I feel like NOTHING can EVER be said. I’ve been pretty good about but sometimes things brought up that are in the past still, evidently, fit the don’t talk about mold. Not angry—just frustrated--here and proposing an idea.

My suggestion would be not to send any comments about the current turn (that you are just sending and he hasn't read yet, but instead feel free to send comments about the last turn (that he has already run and sent back to you. That way you can make comments, without ruining his pleasure of running the turn blind.

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING in our email exchanges so I made a proposal:

Those boys are eating their wheaties after being hit 5 days in a row! Tough guys and DID NOT Mean the last turn it means over the last week of time. Maybe we should open a joint thread where things CAN be said to each without crisis? I want to be able to have back-and-forth for fun but I feel like NOTHING can EVER be said. I’ve been pretty good about but sometimes things brought up that are in the past still, evidently, fit the don’t talk about mold. Not angry—just frustrated--here and proposing an idea.

My suggestion would be not to send any comments about the current turn (that you are just sending and he hasn't read yet, but instead feel free to send comments about the last turn (that he has already run and sent back to you. That way you can make comments, without ruining his pleasure of running the turn blind.

He doesn't want to do that either. It is just frustrating. I LOVE going back-and-forth with my opponent. We had that fun reparte in our first game but something changed in those years that followed. For those who follow Dan's excellent AARs, did he get burned badly by an opponent? This really is different for him compared to before.

He also said no to the joint AAR idea.

Feel like I am going through the motions and simply talking about the weather...

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Hey Chickenman.

I cannot keep it cleared but I can darned well sink some cruisers. Think I'll do a combination. How about sending in Nagato--Mutsu and escorts as a STF followed by the other BBs as a Bombardment Group. The Bigger Boys blast away at shipping present while others bombard.

John, I'm sorry, but I must be clear here...

NO NO NO! BAD! BAD! BAD!

This setup MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your SCTF (yay!). It also MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your bombardment TF (oops!). Or your bombardment TF may be disrupted by the presence of enemy shipping (oops!).

Better to sweep with both SCTFs for a day. DO NOT SET THEM TO FOLLOW ONE ANOTHER, as that formula can lead to unintented consequences should one of the TFs withdraw post-engagement.

Certainly DO NOT have the CVEs follow this lot, as they may cycle through the target hex, just in time to be found by an enemy SCTF. They'll gut a CVE TF at night, I can guarantee you.

Can you arrange for some LRCAP from LBA? It's better than nothing and may be sufficient to break up Allied naval strikes.

Goodness, I would NEVER bring my CVEs anywhere near Akyab. VERY BAD! DISTANT COVER and, perhaps, a quick dart into the Bay of Bengal for a little hunting...

OK. Concur with the thinking over the last 20-25 entries. I will form two BB TF and send them in together to kill shipping. It shall, hopefully, be bloodily FUN to watch.

You still have us.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Feel like I am going through the motions and simply talking about the weather...

Well make it rain blood then, damnit! We'll be happy to talk with you all about that! [8D]

You want it Clucking Boy? You got it!

October 24, 1942

From Port Blair:

Rear Admiral Tanaka Raizo
BB Nagato--Mutsu, CL Natori, and 8 DD

Rear Admiral Kono
BB Yamashiro--Hyuga, CA Furutaka, and 8 DD

DESTINATION: Akyab

Rear Admiral Matsumoto
6 CVE (Saiyen, Kuzuryu, Hosho, Taiyo, Unyo, Chuyo: 62 Zero, 51 Val, 33 Kate) and 6 DD move towards the center of the Bay of Bengal for a 2-3 day raid.

Let us see what the BIG BOYS can sink while not being fettered with the need to do a bombardment as well.