Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: arc3371

You know ofcourse that SS-units are also banned in germany (in games)?

No, I did not. Do you have more details?

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: arc3371

You know ofcourse that SS-units are also banned in germany (in games)?

No, I did not. Do you have more details?

Under § 86a Basic Law, symbols of banned/forbidden parties and organizations may only be displayed for educational purposes. Which is why for instance games like Ardennes Offensive and Hearts of Iron doesn´t contain SS. How has Matrix handled this earler?

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: arc3371

You know ofcourse that SS-units are also banned in germany (in games)?

No, I did not. Do you have more details?

One person who has done a lot of work with WIFFE and indeed I believe has translated the rulebook into German is Ruediger Rinscheidt of the German Design Group. I have never met him and would not dream of speaking for him but he may be someone in the know.

Christo

ORIGINAL: arc3371

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: arc3371
You know ofcourse that SS-units are also banned in germany (in games)?

No, I did not. Do you have more details?

Under § 86a Basic Law, symbols of banned/forbidden parties and organizations may only be displayed for educational purposes. Which is why for instance games like Ardennes Offensive and Hearts of Iron doesn´t contain SS. How has Matrix handled this earler?

Well, we aren't using any symbols. This is how we show the SS units.

Well, it can´t hurt to send a email to the boys at GDG and ask.

ORIGINAL: arc3371

Well, it can´t hurt to send a email to the boys at GDG and ask.

Who is GDG?

German design Group, publishers of WiF in Germany
http://www.gdg.de/

ORIGINAL: arc3371

German design Group, publishers of WiF in Germany
http://www.gdg.de/

Thanks.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: arc3371

German design Group, publishers of WiF in Germany
http://www.gdg.de/

Thanks.

I think that what is forbidden is the rune-like SS symbol that can be found on SS uniforms, caps, heraldy.
Using the double "S" letter, I can't see why this would be forbidden.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: arc3371

German design Group, publishers of WiF in Germany
http://www.gdg.de/

Thanks.

I think that what is forbidden is the rune-like SS symbol that can be found on SS uniforms, caps, heraldy.
Using the double "S" letter, I can't see why this would be forbidden.

Thats how I recall it as well.

Norden

ORIGINAL: arc3371
German design Group, publishers of WiF in Germany
http://www.gdg.de/

Ruediger Rinscheidt is German Design Group.
Ruediger Rinscheidt is at : gdg.rex at cityweb dot de.

I remember I discussed this a lot with German wargamers and they linked me to the following WEB
site for the rules for wargames in Germany.

This is their WEB site:
http://www.ghs-kosim.de/

Click on the button GHS stellt klar and select English language to read their text. For SS units they write that the illegal
part is to use the SS rune symbols on the counters. So it's the rune that is illegal not the double S'es (SS). So it's not
illegal to call a unit i. e. 2 SS, but write 2 ** (where each * is the SS rune) IS illegal. This is exactly the same as Patrice
wrote.

This is the interesting text:
The German "Society for historical Simulations" (the GHS; Gesellschaft fuer historische Simulationen e.V.) has been established as a registered organization in the free democratic constitutional structure of the Federal Republic of Germany. According to its statutes, the GHS has committed explicitly to striving for peaceful co-existence between nations and to the idea of international understanding. Therefore, the GHS rejects the reproduction of symbols from unconstitutional organizations regardless of their shapes, labeled on simulation materials such as boxes, cards, counters, etc.

The GHS appeals to all producers of simulation games to avoid using particular symbols and badges within their products. Symbols of unconstitutional organizations neither improve a game’s simulation value, nor contribute to an increased historical authenticity. Although the GHS recognizes that such symbols are not intentionally used by game producers to be offensive, they should be avoided out of respect for the emotions and feelings of people around the world.

Furthermore, the use of such symbols is forbidden in Germany according to §86 of the StGB (Strafgesetzbuch). These rules make it illegal to trade in games with such symbols. We believe that further legislation will make owning games containing such symbols illegal. The following symbols are explicitly affected by this paragraph: The SS-Runen (SS Runes), SS Totenkopfsymbol (SS Skull), Odins Kreuz (Odin’s Cross), Wolfsraute (Wolfs` Rhomb), Runenraute (Runes’ Rhomb), Keltenkreuz (Celtic Cross), Reichskriegsflagge since 1933 (War Flag), and obviously any form of the Hakenkreuz (Swastika), as well as all variations and corresponding illustrations (this list makes no claim to be exhaustive!).

Society For Historical Simulations
The Managing Comittee

Consenting Opinions:

Germany is rapidly becoming one of the leading game markets in the world. In Germany, the swastika distorts the past in a manner that demeans her thousands of years of history. To allow all gamers full access to all our games, Australian Design Group no longer uses swastikas in her games.

"Harry Rowland (Australian Design Group)

Well we won't be using any such images in any games; we do understand the issue and do not feel the symbols are necessary for games."

Good news then.

Borger,

As always, thank you for your help.

wouldnt it be cool if there was room to insert a photo into the description ...would be nice for the ships, AC and HQs ...

ORIGINAL: CBoehm

wouldnt it be cool if there was room to insert a photo into the description ...would be nice for the ships, AC and HQs ...

There are always copyright concerns.

At this point, I believe the game design supports enough 'glitz'. I want to focus on game play instead.

Jesper Pehrson has started work on doing writeups for land units. Thank you Jesper!

He has done a half dozen and we are looking for some feedback as to what should be included. Here are 3 that he has done so far.

Here's another.

And a third. Last in series.

Any advice, comments, suggestions or what not is welcome. Be brutally honest if you wish. I am trying to find a style that works. I also want to know what is interesting and what is not.

- Jesper