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On my 1974 Minerals in Spain map, I see Lead and Iron NW of Almeria. Are you sure about Zinc ? Zinc I see E of Bilbao only.

My map is global so detail is poor, but the zinc may have come from a hex or two east of the resource hex ... difficult to tell.

One thing though. What kind of material was Spain shipping to Germany during WWII ? Does anyone know ?

Germany was desperate for iron ore. Main supplier was Sweden, followed by France, and I think Spain was third. The trouble is that since Spain produced <1% iron, a second iron resource hex isn't justified, how ever great Germany's need may have been. Zinc at 3% must have been more significant: think batteries, then think of submarines, then think of the priority given to the U-Boat war.

ORIGINAL: Norman42
Hmm, I'm not sure where you are getting your data from, but having been a citizen of Fort William/Port Arthur for 27 years, I can tell you your numbers are way off.

I took them from a Collier Atlas from 1935 and another from 1944. Generaly the number displyed in these books seems quite good. Maybe there are problems with Fort Williams / Port Arthur.

Yes, but it is supply starved on the WiF FE America map too, so for consistency reasons, it has to be the same level of supply IMO on the MWiF map.

With the changes in map scale and cities added to other supply starved areas in China/USA/USSR I think "consistancy" is not enough of a reason to exclude a key supply depot.

Well, look at the attached picture.
It shows the original WiF FE map, and the out of supply hexes are darkened. You see that there is a large piece of Ontario that is out of supply north of Lake Superior. Adding Sudbury for example was done to obtain the supply status that the original maps have thanks to Toronto and Ottawa. With the new scale, all the area north of Lake Huron would be out of supply. Nearly all the additional cities that were added to China / USA / USSR were added to restore the supply state of the original map, with credible means. Adding Sudbury is credible. Adding Fort Williams / Port Arthur would be credible too, in regards to the population number and supply hub nature of the area during WWII, but it would put in supply a huge part of the territory that should be out of supply normaly. So, what to do ? I prefer to keep the changes to a minimum, and CWiF originaly did not have a city here, so I prefer not to add one.

If I tell you that originaly the resource on the WiF FE maps was on the railway junction from Fort William and Winnipeg, what do you think it could be ? Still lumber ?

That junction is the location of the Atikokan Mines, but really the forestry industry was a much larger portion of resources in this region and still is today.

So, leaving the resource where it is is the best ?

Well, Noranda / Rouyn is not around Mont Laurier, it is on the Quebec-Cochrane railway (on a southward spur), I'd say 2 hexes east of Cochrane. At least on my 1944 Collier Atlas map. I agree though that it is a Copper Mine.
Before moving this resource in Noranda, I would like to know something : Originaly (on the WiF FE maps), this "Prembroke" resource is placed 1 hex west of Ottawa, 1 hex northeast of Toronto. Do you see what it could be ? If you see nothing, I might move it to Noranda, but this is quite far away from the original position.

Correct, the Noranda region is not exactly at the Mt Laurier area, but it is the closest railhead point to the resource. Close enough for arguments sake at least, I'd put the resource 3 hexes north west of Mt Laurier, in the clear hex on the Cochrane/Quebec Railway, or even closer if you dont mind adding the railway spur. The Noranda-Rouyn Mining Complex had 63 seperate mines in 1944, one of the most mineral rich areas in the world. As far as the Pembroke area, there are no significant resources of any magnitude, some small mining operations, some dairy and produce crops, nothing really major. Noranda far outweighs the Pembroke area for resource output.

On my Collier Atlas 1940 map, it is about 1/3rd of the direct (straight line) distance between Cochrane & Mont Laurier. All three location are on a (imaginary) straight line.

5. Western Canada resource - This would represent an amalgamation of all of Alberta's Livestock, Grain, and Oil production. As these sites were spread out across the province no single location is any better.
OK, so no specific type of resource. Say it is "Mixed".

"Mixed" sounds right, though I would be tempted to put the resource a couple hexes eastwards so its in the plains not the mountains. The Alberta plains is where the vast majority of AB's resource wealth is (Livestock, Grain, Oil). The Alberta mines in the mountains were far less developed during the war, mostly consisting of small gold claims.

I prefer to leave it as is, as it is placed the same on the WiF FE maps.

On my Collier Atlas 1940 map, it is about 1/3rd of the direct (straight line) distance between Cochrane & Mont Laurier. All three location are on a (imaginary) straight line.

Here's where I put Rouyn :

And here is the same spot, from the Collier Atlas 1940.

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

On my 1974 Minerals in Spain map, I see Lead and Iron NW of Almeria. Are you sure about Zinc ? Zinc I see E of Bilbao only.

My map is global so detail is poor, but the zinc may have come from a hex or two east of the resource hex ... difficult to tell.

One thing though. What kind of material was Spain shipping to Germany during WWII ? Does anyone know ?

Germany was desperate for iron ore. Main supplier was Sweden, followed by France, and I think Spain was third. The trouble is that since Spain produced <1% iron, a second iron resource hex isn't justified, how ever great Germany's need may have been. Zinc at 3% must have been more significant: think batteries, then think of submarines, then think of the priority given to the U-Boat war.

Here is the 1974 map.
So : Almeria ; Lead, Iron or Zinc ?

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, look at the attached picture.
It shows the original WiF FE map, and the out of supply hexes are darkened. You see that there is a large piece of Ontario that is out of supply north of Lake Superior. Adding Sudbury for example was done to obtain the supply status that the original maps have thanks to Toronto and Ottawa. With the new scale, all the area north of Lake Huron would be out of supply. Nearly all the additional cities that were added to China / USA / USSR were added to restore the supply state of the original map, with credible means. Adding Sudbury is credible. Adding Fort Williams / Port Arthur would be credible too, in regards to the population number and supply hub nature of the area during WWII, but it would put in supply a huge part of the territory that should be out of supply normaly. So, what to do ? I prefer to keep the changes to a minimum, and CWiF originaly did not have a city here, so I prefer not to add one.

It just seems odd to me to leave a key area of Canada the size of Spain out of supply, when in reality it had extensive commercial and military traffic, multiple cities, many lake ports that had large volumes of traffic, shipyards that built frigates and corvettes (Port Arthur Shipbuilding Co.), many main railway lines and excellent highways and airports, and as well, a fairly high population and industrial output compared to some other areas in the world that are "in supply" (looking at China and Russia and many South American areas here). Changes have been made on the map to represent the "reality on the ground", especially the Americas map due to scale changes and input that showed rectifications were needed. This seems like a definite candidate for a correction to the reality as it was. Its not really a significant war operations area, so the issue isnt a large one, but if you do want accuracy on the maps, it should be looked at. If the sanctity of keeping the WiFFE edition maps the same is more important then so be it.

That junction is the location of the Atikokan Mines, but really the forestry industry was a much larger portion of resources in this region and still is today.

So, leaving the resource where it is is the best ?

Well, really the resource as located in WiFFE isnt really in any specific location that could be called a "resource site". The Atikokan and Fort Francis mines in the area weren't really significant enough. The resources of the area are in reality spread out in North Western Ontario, much the same as the Calgary one. If you want to put the North Western Ontario resource at the main resource gathering site in the region you should probably put it right in Fort William. If FW can't be made a city, then at least a representation of its economic value could be made by placing the resource that focusses on it right in the Fort William/Port Arthur hex. This seems like it might be a reasonable compromise.

On my Collier Atlas 1940 map, it is about 1/3rd of the direct (straight line) distance between Cochrane & Mont Laurier. All three location are on a (imaginary) straight line.

That seems a reasonable enough location. In my opinion it should definately be moved out of Pembroke to wherever you feel the hex for Noranda is.

"Mixed" sounds right, though I would be tempted to put the resource a couple hexes eastwards so its in the plains not the mountains. The Alberta plains is where the vast majority of AB's resource wealth is (Livestock, Grain, Oil). The Alberta mines in the mountains were far less developed during the war, mostly consisting of small gold claims.

I prefer to leave it as is, as it is placed the same on the WiF FE maps.

Fair enough, the location doesn't really matter much for that one since it is a 'regional resource'

.

Re: Rouyn placement

That looks fine.

Much more accurate placement.

ORIGINAL: Norman42

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, look at the attached picture.
It shows the original WiF FE map, and the out of supply hexes are darkened. You see that there is a large piece of Ontario that is out of supply north of Lake Superior. Adding Sudbury for example was done to obtain the supply status that the original maps have thanks to Toronto and Ottawa. With the new scale, all the area north of Lake Huron would be out of supply. Nearly all the additional cities that were added to China / USA / USSR were added to restore the supply state of the original map, with credible means. Adding Sudbury is credible. Adding Fort Williams / Port Arthur would be credible too, in regards to the population number and supply hub nature of the area during WWII, but it would put in supply a huge part of the territory that should be out of supply normaly. So, what to do ? I prefer to keep the changes to a minimum, and CWiF originaly did not have a city here, so I prefer not to add one.

It just seems odd to me to leave a key area of Canada the size of Spain out of supply, when in reality it had extensive commercial and military traffic, multiple cities, many lake ports that had large volumes of traffic, shipyards that built frigates and corvettes (Port Arthur Shipbuilding Co.), many main railway lines and excellent highways and airports, and as well, a fairly high population and industrial output compared to some other areas in the world that are "in supply" (looking at China and Russia and many South American areas here). Changes have been made on the map to represent the "reality on the ground", especially the Americas map due to scale changes and input that showed rectifications were needed. This seems like a definite candidate for a correction to the reality as it was. Its not really a significant war operations area, so the issue isnt a large one, but if you do want accuracy on the maps, it should be looked at. If the sanctity of keeping the WiFFE edition maps the same is more important then so be it.

I have sympathy to what Norman42 says, and if it was only me, I'd add a city here. It really looks like a place that could be made more realistic, especially as Norman42 says, as this is not a significant war operation area.

Opinions from other people, or from people knowing Canada ?

Current list of to be determined resources

Indianapolis USA
Little Rock USA
Louisville USA
Phoenix USA
Clear 90,113 India
Forest 90,106 India
Mountain 95,110 India
Warangal 97,107 India
Clear 86,288 Mexico
Clear 49,33 Netherlands
Clear 65,299 USA
Clear 64,296 USA
Clear 69,293 USA
Clear 54,273 USA
Mountain 74,271 USA
Forest 71,307 USA
Mountain 65,310 USA
Clear 68,306 USA
Forest 72,306 USA
Forest 58,283 USA
Mountain 68,284 USA
Mountain 66,278 USA
Mountain 67,269 USA
Clear 55,296 USA
Clear 71,299 USA
Mountain 74,304 USA
Clear 51,64 USSR
Clear 43,62 USSR
Forest 63,72 USSR
Forest 39,88 USSR
Forest 42,87 USSR
Biisk USSR
Kokand USSR

Clear 155,53 South Africa (see post #57)
Clear 148,56 South Africa (see post #57)
Forest 52,298 Timber ? (See post #60)

Biisk

From: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition | Date: 2007

Biisk see Biysk , Russia.

Aha! Biysk = Iron Ore. Also some Mercury in the area, but Iron looks to be the predominate resource.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Current list of to be determined resources

Indianapolis USA
Little Rock USA
Louisville USA
Phoenix USA
Clear 90,113 India
Forest 90,106 India
Mountain 95,110 India
Warangal 97,107 India
Clear 86,288 Mexico
Clear 49,33 Netherlands
Clear 65,299 USA
Clear 64,296 USA
Clear 69,293 USA
Clear 54,273 USA
Mountain 74,271 USA
Forest 71,307 USA
Mountain 65,310 USA
Clear 68,306 USA
Forest 72,306 USA
Forest 58,283 USA
Mountain 68,284 USA
Mountain 66,278 USA
Mountain 67,269 USA
Clear 55,296 USA
Clear 71,299 USA
Mountain 74,304 USA
Clear 51,64 USSR
Clear 43,62 USSR
Forest 63,72 USSR
Forest 39,88 USSR
Forest 42,87 USSR
Biisk USSR
Kokand USSR

Clear 155,53 South Africa (see post #57)
Clear 148,56 South Africa (see post #57)
Forest 52,298 Timber ? (See post #60)

Couple tough ones.

1West of Monterrey MEXICO = ? I see many resource regions in Mexico, however this area seems to have nothing but minor farming. Nothing even relatively close. Closest main resource area I can see is the Leon Silver Mines 3 hexes NW of Mexico City, or the Chihuahua mining complex to the west int the Chihuahua hex.

1East of Amsterdam NETHERLANDS = ? Again, there is no significant resource in this area. It is primarily mixed grain farmland and dairy. The closest resource of any kind here are the minor Salt Mines at Enschede in the south portion of this hex. The only real significant resources in the Netherlands seems to be the farming and dairy types, of which it is indeed quite significant(31% of western european dairy products in 1938).

Will take a shot at some of the USA ones, though I'm no expert there:

Indianapolis = Tough one as nothing really stands out in the area aside from Livestock(extensive). Perhaps Coal, there are some fields SW of the city

Little Rock = Bauxite. Large deposites in...Bauxite, Arkansas!
Louisville = Again, nothing really stands out here. Tobacco seems to be the primary product of the area. Lucky Strikes for the Boys 'Over There'? [:D] . Coalfields seem to be the main resource in Kentucky so probably go with that.
Phoenix = Copper. Three major Copper producing areas surround Pheonix to S, W and E.


.

ORIGINAL: Froonp

ORIGINAL: Norman42

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, look at the attached picture.
It shows the original WiF FE map, and the out of supply hexes are darkened. You see that there is a large piece of Ontario that is out of supply north of Lake Superior. Adding Sudbury for example was done to obtain the supply status that the original maps have thanks to Toronto and Ottawa. With the new scale, all the area north of Lake Huron would be out of supply. Nearly all the additional cities that were added to China / USA / USSR were added to restore the supply state of the original map, with credible means. Adding Sudbury is credible. Adding Fort Williams / Port Arthur would be credible too, in regards to the population number and supply hub nature of the area during WWII, but it would put in supply a huge part of the territory that should be out of supply normaly. So, what to do ? I prefer to keep the changes to a minimum, and CWiF originaly did not have a city here, so I prefer not to add one.

It just seems odd to me to leave a key area of Canada the size of Spain out of supply, when in reality it had extensive commercial and military traffic, multiple cities, many lake ports that had large volumes of traffic, shipyards that built frigates and corvettes (Port Arthur Shipbuilding Co.), many main railway lines and excellent highways and airports, and as well, a fairly high population and industrial output compared to some other areas in the world that are "in supply" (looking at China and Russia and many South American areas here). Changes have been made on the map to represent the "reality on the ground", especially the Americas map due to scale changes and input that showed rectifications were needed. This seems like a definite candidate for a correction to the reality as it was. Its not really a significant war operations area, so the issue isnt a large one, but if you do want accuracy on the maps, it should be looked at. If the sanctity of keeping the WiFFE edition maps the same is more important then so be it.

I have sympathy to what Norman42 says, and if it was only me, I'd add a city here. It really looks like a place that could be made more realistic, especially as Norman42 says, as this is not a significant war operation area.

Opinions from other people, or from people knowing Canada ?

I liked Norman's reasoning and vote to make it a city.

ORIGINAL: Norman42
1West of Monterrey MEXICO = ? I see many resource regions in Mexico, however this area seems to have nothing but minor farming. Nothing even relatively close. Closest main resource area I can see is the Leon Silver Mines 3 hexes NW of Mexico City, or the Chihuahua mining complex to the west int the Chihuahua hex.

West of Monterrey, this is Coahuila State, and the Wikipedia page about Coahuila (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coahuila) says "About 95% of Mexico's coal reserves are found in Coahuila, which is the country's top mining state". So I suppose that the resource is Coal.

1East of Amsterdam NETHERLANDS = ? Again, there is no significant resource in this area. It is primarily mixed grain farmland and dairy. The closest resource of any kind here are the minor Salt Mines at Enschede in the south portion of this hex. The only real significant resources in the Netherlands seems to be the farming and dairy types, of which it is indeed quite significant(31% of western european dairy products in 1938).

I found gas on a 1970 "Basic Resources and Processing" map from the Netherlands. But I don't know if it was existing in the 40s. Maybe Marcus can find more informations ?

ORIGINAL: Froonp

West of Monterrey, this is Coahuila State, and the Wikipedia page about Coahuila (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coahuila) says "About 95% of Mexico's coal reserves are found in Coahuila, which is the country's top mining state". So I suppose that the resource is Coal.

Thats a definate possiblility, though the resourse should probably be moved a bit north if it matters. The coalfields seem to be 2hexes NW of Monterrey, although they dont look very extensive, they are Mexico's only significant Coal mines.


Note: I edited in a few USA resources above on the post #91

I've not yet responded to your Post 57, about the South African resources.&nbsp; My thoughts are these:
&nbsp;
1.&nbsp; Not coal!&nbsp; Coal is the least important resource in this game, given its profusion all over the map.&nbsp; And the UK sits on a massive bed of coal, yet in the game the UK is awarded only two resource centres (half Spain's alocation!).&nbsp; So clearly, coal is factored into the game, at least so far as&nbsp;besieged Britain is concerned.&nbsp; Or looked at another way, it would be idiotic to use convoys to bring South African coal to Britain&nbsp;when the UK is full of the stuff already.
&nbsp;
2.&nbsp; The resource hex is presently located at the point the Orange River turns from westward flow to northwestwards (its source being to the right, mouth to the left).&nbsp; Your resource map (Post 57) shows that there is absolutely nothing at that point, the minor coalfield being to the east.
&nbsp;
3.&nbsp; Since there is nothing at all at the resource hex's location, clearly it is in the wrong place.&nbsp; Therefore we may correct the error by moving it.&nbsp;&nbsp;South Africa is world-famous for its gold and diamonds.&nbsp; Therefore if we don't allocate each of these to the two resources we will look complete idiots.&nbsp; So shift the southern resource to Kimberley 1W1NW of Bloomfontein = diamonds, and the northern resource to 1SW Pretoria = gold.
&nbsp;
4.&nbsp; CWiF will no doubt be discontinued as soon as MWiF is published, so we shouldn't worry about it but&nbsp;have our eyes set firmly on the future.&nbsp; The important thing is to get resource locations right (because this is our last chance), not reinforce errors just because that's the way some people have got used to playing the map.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;
And here's something interesting.&nbsp; Remember the debate about the odd Chinese resource near Suchow which is now to become phosphates at the coast?&nbsp; Well, today I fished my copy of WiF out from under the roof-space.&nbsp; It turns out to be the first-edition game with second-edition rules, issued in 1985.&nbsp; And in that, the original location of that&nbsp;strange Chinese resource ... is between Nanking and Wuhan!&nbsp; I always said that the major iron-ore mines at Tayeh should appear in any game on China, and it appears that was Harry's and Greg's intention all along.&nbsp; How it came to wend its way northeast over the years is a question I would love to have answered.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

The Netherlands: The problem with identifying the type of resource in the Netherlands is that traditionally the Dutch have always been processors rather than producers.&nbsp; Thus my atlas reveals that in 1959 the Netherlands produced 2% of all the shoes and boots in the world, and 1% of all the world's newsprint.
&nbsp;
But looking at the statistics for the Netherlands at the end of the atlas, it is clear that pre-war the major Dutch resource was exactly what it is today: food.&nbsp; Pre-war it produced 2% of the world's potatoes.&nbsp;&nbsp;In the period 1953-55 it produced 3% of the world's milk and had the highest milk yield in the world (3.89 tonnes per cow p.a.).&nbsp; It exported 10% of the world's butter and 23% of the world's cheese.
&nbsp;
Given the starvation Germany faced in both World Wars, I think we may fairly class the strategic resources that comes from the Netherlands as simply Food.

rant deleted

ORIGINAL: brian brian

rant deleted

Given some of the comments/concern about clutter, I decided I would only show the small font items , like resource types, at zoom levels 6, 7 & 8 (not at 1 - 5).

I just hope you aren't using much time on this. Let Marcus write it up as an appendix on the CD and keep on truckin'. Every WiF player knows the Swedish resources are Iron Ore and Ploesti and the NEI have the oil. Beyond that, who has really cared?

3. Since there is nothing at all at the resource hex's location, clearly it is in the wrong place. Therefore we may correct the error by moving it. South Africa is world-famous for its gold and diamonds. Therefore if we don't allocate each of these to the two resources we will look complete idiots. So shift the southern resource to Kimberley 1W1NW of Bloomfontein = diamonds, and the northern resource to 1SW Pretoria = gold.

I agree with all that, so I moved both resources.
The second one I was moved to Pretoria (where it is on the WiF maps).