Matrix Games Forums

Totally unrelated subject: there's a Rising Sun Far East project?! Someone link me, please!

I believe most, if not all, of the mods have been incorporated into the MCS. Including the Rising Sun Far East project.

Jason Petho

Now I understand thanks Jason

ORIGINAL: Ladmo

Regarding the locked out platoon and weapons files...As the "policy is here to stay" I realize I am wasting my breath, but it is mine to waste and I will only do it this once.

I think it can reasonably be said that a good part of the reason the Campaign Series has lasted so far beyond its sell-by date has been its modibility. Modders (including the CS Legion) have added to it, kept it fresh, and stimulated interest in the series through their work. The Ethiopian addition by Charles Hall, the Spanish Civil War and Italian additions, the Rising Sun Far East Project, and the addtions by the Blitz have all found their far into the current edition and contributed to making it a viable property, enough so that Matrix pursued it and breathed new life into. This decision to lock everything out would be hysterically funny in its irony if it wasn't so maddening. It cuts at the very core of what has kept the game alive. To call the decision unfortunate is a supreme effort in understatement.

I could not have said it better nor could I agree with you more. As someone who likes to "tinker" with units, I probably spend more time modding than I do actually playing the game. So I also find this development "unfortunate".[:(]

ORIGINAL: Ladmo
I do not intend this post as a blast against anyone. There are no villains in a thing like this, just people with fundamentally different views on a subject.

Again, I completely agree with you. I would add that Jason and Co. have done much to advance the development of this series. It's because of their many hours of hard work that we have a better game now. And for that, they have earned my respect.[&o]

ORIGINAL: Jason
I understand your position. There is nothing that will stop anyone from modding anything, especially new countries as the company through army oobs are still moddable. Even the platoon and weapon file is still moddable, you just can't encrypt them and use it in your install.

Logically, there is only one extra step that has to be done; that is sending the platoon and weapon file that you would like encrypted to me, so I can do it.

Jason, if I understood you correctly, only the platoon.obo & weapon.pdt files are moddable. As you know, those files are not used by the game so that really doesn't help much. I could mod those 'til the cows come home' and not change a thing in the game. It might make me feel better about myself, but I don't think so.[;)] As for sending you the files to be encrypted: if I sent you a file every time I tweaked something..... I know you have the patience of a saint, but I'm afraid I would sorely try you.[:)] It just doesn't seem practical to me.

"here to stay" sounds so final.[&:] Perhaps, after the patch has been released and the dust has settled, a dialogue could be started to debate this issue. Let's hear from gamers that have benefitted from this fix and modders that have been hindered. Maybe it's not an issue at all. Or maybe there's another fix that will make both sides happy. Like a warning to a player that his opponent doesn't have a stock .obx or .pdt file?

Anyway, I think I'll take a "wait and see" approach. Thanks for your time.

With respect,

cw58

It is unortunate that the actions of a few can affect the rest of us.  From what I am gathering, cheating during PBEM and tournaments is a serious enough issue to impliment this policy.  In a perfect world these kind or drastic measures would not be needed.  I am of the opinion that until a more effective means to police tournaments are in place, this policy will say in effect.  And until all players play with honor, as the people in this forum, I suspect we will have a long wait indeed.
 
Now,after having said this,  I understan BOTH sides of this issue.  My personal desire is to be able to Mod and play freely.  While personally, I do not agree with this policy decision, I do understand the reason for it, and will support it until a better way is found to eliminate the cheating and still be able to mod freely.

I perceive this to be like the Camo group's Steel Panthers games position. You can mod your game all you want. But official changes are solely up to their discretion. They look at change requests but are leary of accepting other people's work for inclusion in future patches. They also include an OOB swapping program so that you can easily change from your sets to stock ones for PBEM.

edit after spell check, what was I thinking?

As a modder I'm for locking platton/weapon files

My issue is not cheating but "different versions" hell...As anyone can change/improve platoons and their weapons stats even for stock scenarios it leads to incosistency
I've different idea for new units addons but I like this first step

Many weeks again and no patch....
H.Balck

I have to admit that I have not followed all that has transpired about this subject. Am I too understand that aspects of the program are to be restricted? And not be available to 'moders'? Not to take anyone to task, but did you take notice of the backlash that Microsoft received when they began 'dictating' to the 'community'? I hope the powers that be here will not make that mistake. Of all the various types of internet sites, I would think that this one would be one that would learn from history and not repeat the mistakes of the past! I wish all involved a reasonable and workable solution. It just makes me cringe when I hear of such things. Probably an over reaction, I know.

Dennis [:-]

but did you take notice of the backlash that Microsoft received when they began 'dictating' to the 'community'?

yeah, phew...sent them out of business didn't it?   How does the above relate to a solid attempt to standardise and improve the CS experience?

Probably an over reaction, I know.

I think it's admirable of the team that they have implemented this policy to avoid something akin to Microsoft's own 'DLL Hell' from some years ago.  And it's not as if modding has been outlawed; Jason has said that it's just adding in an additional step.

Jolly good move chaps!

cheers

ORIGINAL: dgk196

I have to admit that I have not followed all that has transpired about this subject. Am I too understand that aspects of the program are to be restricted? And not be available to 'moders'? Not to take anyone to task, but did you take notice of the backlash that Microsoft received when they began 'dictating' to the 'community'? I hope the powers that be here will not make that mistake. Of all the various types of internet sites, I would think that this one would be one that would learn from history and not repeat the mistakes of the past! I wish all involved a reasonable and workable solution. It just makes me cringe when I hear of such things. Probably an over reaction, I know.

Dennis [:-]

I would recommend reading Post #80, which should clarify things.

Based on that, perhaps it is an over reaction, yes.

An additional note; all graphics files are still fully modable; everything from game screens to unit files.

Jason Petho

Hallo Jason Petho

An additional note; all graphics files are still fully modable; everything from game screens to unit files.

Thats I make in my JTCS meets PG3D mods. The question is: Can I make addional grahpics for existing terraintypes and develop for new terrain types ?
Can that be possible sometime???

H.Balck

ORIGINAL: Dumnorix

Hallo Jason Petho

Thats I make in my JTCS meets PG3D mods. The question is: Can I make addional grahpics for existing terraintypes and develop for new terrain types ?
Can that be possible sometime???

H.Balck

In the future, I hope that is the case. It is something I have wanted for years!

Jason Petho

Hallo Jason
CS is a game many years back in the days (East Front I = 1999). The future - begins now !
Keep going now... Can I open my Knowledge of enginecodes for public modders and can you do this also !!! (and Matrix)

H.Balck

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

ORIGINAL: dgk196

I have to admit that I have not followed all that has transpired about this subject. Am I too understand that aspects of the program are to be restricted? And not be available to 'moders'? Not to take anyone to task, but did you take notice of the backlash that Microsoft received when they began 'dictating' to the 'community'? I hope the powers that be here will not make that mistake. Of all the various types of internet sites, I would think that this one would be one that would learn from history and not repeat the mistakes of the past! I wish all involved a reasonable and workable solution. It just makes me cringe when I hear of such things. Probably an over reaction, I know.

Dennis [:-]

I would recommend reading Post #80, which should clarify things.

Based on that, perhaps it is an over reaction, yes.

An additional note; all graphics files are still fully modable; everything from game screens to unit files.

Jason Petho

If I've understood "Post 80", it suggests that modders sent files to you to encrypt, and justifies the decision to prevent data modding for all by some lame pbem "cheaters" ?
And you really think it's a good move to close to modding a game engine that has been open for nearly 10 years ?

Sorry to voice it loud, but this is a reaal baad decision. If you want to counter cheating make some data file checks, don't go backwards to prevent modding instead.

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco



If I've understood "Post 80", it suggests that modders sent files to you to encrypt, and justifies the decision to prevent data modding for all by some lame pbem "cheaters" ?
And you really think it's a good move to close to modding a game engine that has been open for nearly 10 years ?

Sorry to voice it loud, but this is a reaal baad decision. If you want to counter cheating make some data file checks, don't go backwards to prevent modding instead.

There's been a problem with cheating for 10 years as well. More than a few players have abandoned Campaign Series just because of that. So IMO the decision to make data encrypting exclusive for the developers is a wise one. It is still possible to create new units etc. As far as I can see the current development team has no problem encrypting new data made by users for the benefit of the CS community and future updates.

Huib

Just from what I can tell- Almost everything can still be modded, and the only two things that cannot, are the two links at the bottom of the chain, platoons and weapons, which the development team says they will do for anyone needing it. This seems fair. My only problem is that to spend money to purchase something, and then have a company tell you how to use it, kinda sux [:D] but i do, sorta, understand their basic reasoning. As far as cheating making players quit playing, tho, some of the most popular games out, are the ones that have cheat codes-- I am glad this doesn't, but hardly would say cheating loses customers.

ORIGINAL: kg_1007

Just from what I can tell- Almost everything can still be modded, and the only two things that cannot, are the two links at the bottom of the chain, platoons and weapons, which the development team says they will do for anyone needing it. This seems fair. My only problem is that to spend money to purchase something, and then have a company tell you how to use it, kinda sux [:D] but i do, sorta, understand their basic reasoning. As far as cheating making players quit playing, tho, some of the most popular games out, are the ones that have cheat codes-- I am glad this doesn't, but hardly would say cheating loses customers.

Cheating in in PBEM games I mean. Believe me it makes people leave. Generally most people who are used to PBEM will not return to playing vs AI anymore anyway.

Here are the movement codes for the movement-file:
FREI wasser WALD MARSCH GEBÄUDE DORF STADT BEACH GÄRTEN ROUGH SEIWAS UNÜBER INDUST FELD VORORT SUMPF WEIN KAKTUS HAMMADA SCRUB SAND WADI DRYPAD FLOPAD PALM LEJUNGL JUNGLE KUNAI RUINE-C TRENCH AUTOB EISENB BACH FLUSS SCHWBR MITBR LEBR HECKE DÜNE KLIPPE HANG(Höhe aufwärts) STRASSE SCHLUCH FURT WEG PZSPERR WAND BOCAGE ESC RUINEDO HÖHENUNTERSCHIED
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51

The 4 blockes are the 4 weather-Possibilities !
Every row is for one movement-type !


and the main-file-codes:
http://files.filefront.com/Code+Mainzip/;10056395;/fileinfo.html

H.Balck

Ermmm why has this topics title changed?? it now reads "Faule Bande!" if mt german is correct it means "Lazy bunch"???Only just noticed it!!!