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RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:12 pm
by Orm
Germany decided at the beginning of this turn to abandon the drive towards Leningrad and diverted those forces towards Moscow. There are no units at all north of this picture untill the units shown on the Murmansk front.
Picture taken at the end of turn, July/August 41.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:34 am
by Orm
Germany lost the initiative roll and demanded a reroll and won the second die roll. After the weather roll the German player (me) feels like someone has stolen all his candy. Germany gets even more depressed when he looks at all the new Soviet units that arrived as reinforcement.
Picture taken at the beginning of Axis impulse 1, Sep/Oct 41. The weather in this picture is storm.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:45 am
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Orm
Here is the Murmansk front at zoom level 7 (out of 8). Finland has made 2 assaults on Murmansk and failed both.
Picture taken at the end of turn, July/August 41.
Warspite1
Orm - thanks for taking the trouble to show these. as someone who only ever got to play with those, less than ideal off-map boxes, its great to see this part of the map "in action" [:)].
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:23 am
by brian brian
how many units were 'new' and how many were from 'shatters' ?
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:13 am
by Orm
ORIGINAL: brian brian
how many units were 'new' and how many were from 'shatters' ?
I do not know that unfortunately.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:51 pm
by peskpesk
Finally a break for the Russians…[;)] From what I have seen so far it seams as the 2D10 CRT ,fine weather and the Barbarossa setup rules is a killer for the USSR, roughly how many of the 20 units that must be setup within 2 hexes of the border survived the first turn?
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:59 pm
by Orm
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Finally a break for the Russians…[;)] From what I have seen so far it seams as the 2D10 CRT ,fine weather and the Barbarossa setup rules is a killer for the USSR, roughly how many of the 20 units that must be setup within 2 hexes of the border survived the first turn?
No idea. My guess would be 4 to 6. But if someone said it was zero units I would belive him.
I think it was 1 or two of them that was shattered during the first turn and that counts as surviving. [;)]
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:08 pm
by Shannon V. OKeets
ORIGINAL: peskpesk
Finally a break for the Russians…[;)] From what I have seen so far it seams as the 2D10 CRT ,fine weather and the Barbarossa setup rules is a killer for the USSR, roughly how many of the 20 units that must be setup within 2 hexes of the border survived the first turn?
For those unfamiliar with the Barbarossa scenario, the USSR must set up 10 Corps within 2 hexes of Rumania and another 10 Corps within 2 hexes of East Prussia/western Poland. Those 20 corps get hammered when Germany launches its surprise attack.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:44 pm
by brian brian
When I'm playing the Germans I frequently forget that I can convert a shatter result to a retreat and push the defenders off in a direction where they are easier to surround and perhaps completely eliminate. The next reinforcement phase I am reminded of that, every time.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:57 pm
by morgil
No wonder they are failing to take out Murmansk, as they are OOS [:-], unless there is something funny im not seeing...[:D]
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:11 pm
by sajbalk
The Finnish force is not out of supply. HQ-I Mannerheim traces to the road, then along the road to a primary supply source.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:57 pm
by morgil
A hex a railway supply path enters, by moving along a railway or road, does not count against the 4 hex limit.
Ohh Duh...I have read that book a hundred times....and this is the first time i saw that emboldened word, me thinks..
Atleast first time i noticed it...[&o]
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:05 pm
by paulderynck
But if a German unit were up there on loan to the Finns, it would be OOS in Rain or Storm.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:17 pm
by Orm
Germany advances slowly and rebases 4 aircraft close to the front and mutters something about bad weather should not be allowed.
Picture taken at the end of Axis Impulse 1, September/October 41.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:08 am
by Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
But if a German unit were up there on loan to the Finns, it would be OOS in Rain or Storm.
If it was where? If it was with the other stacks, no OOS either, am I right?
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:11 am
by Orm
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: paulderynck
But if a German unit were up there on loan to the Finns, it would be OOS in Rain or Storm.
If it was where? If it was with the other stacks, no OOS either, am I right?
There are no German unit on the Murmansk front. If it were then the HQ-I would have to be one hex closer to the road in order to be able to give supply to a German unit during Rain or Storm.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:09 am
by Joseignacio
I see, then it is because the germans would have to bring the supply through sea to Helsinki and this makes one more point, no?
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:32 am
by Orm
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
I see, then it is because the germans would have to bring the supply through sea to Helsinki and this makes one more point, no?
No. For Finland Helsinki is a primary supply source and therefore the supply route from Mannerheim (HQ-I) to Helsinki is a railway supply path when drawing supply to Finnish units.
But for Germany Helsinki is a secondary supply source and then Mannerheim is only allowed to draw a basic supply path to Helsinki, and Helsinki is obviously more than 4 hexes away (modified for weather). Mannerheim need to draw a railway supply path to a primary supply source for the German units as well and then the supply path must go overseas to a German city and then the German port that the overseas path enters counts as one hex.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:30 am
by Froonp
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
I see, then it is because the germans would have to bring the supply through sea to Helsinki and this makes one more point, no?
No. For Finland Helsinki is a primary supply source and therefore the supply route from Mannerheim (HQ-I) to Helsinki is a railway supply path when drawing supply to Finnish units.
But for Germany Helsinki is a secondary supply source and then Mannerheim is only allowed to draw a basic supply path to Helsinki, and Helsinki is obviously more than 4 hexes away (modified for weather). Mannerheim need to draw a railway supply path to a primary supply source for the German units as well and then the supply path must go overseas to a German city and then the German port that the overseas path enters counts as one hex.
A railway supply path can have non rail hexes (maximum 4 in fine weather). So Mannerheim can trace a railway supply path from where it is, through the road, then the rail, then the Baltic, then to a German Primary supply source.
The only difference as to the railway supply path that he traces for a Finnish unit, is 1 'extra hex' to cross the Baltic.
On the screenshot of post #83, Mannerheim is 2 hexes from the road, so he can trace a railway supply path to a primary supply source in Germany. He'd have 3 non rail hexes in his path, 2 of them to reach the road, and a 3rd to cross the Baltic.
RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:17 am
by Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: Froonp
A railway supply path can have non rail hexes (maximum 4 in fine weather). So Mannerheim can trace a railway supply path from where it is, through the road, then the rail, then the Baltic, then to a German Primary supply source.
The only difference as to the railway supply path that he traces for a Finnish unit, is 1 'extra hex' to cross the Baltic.
On the screenshot of post #83, Mannerheim is 2 hexes from the road, so he can trace a railway supply path to a primary supply source in Germany. He'd have 3 non rail hexes in his path, 2 of them to reach the road, and a 3rd to cross the Baltic.
I was a little bit worried because my interpretation of the rules was like yours, and I couldn't understand the distinction Orm was making for the supply paths.
