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RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:54 pm
by Q-Ball
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting discussion of the Helen vs. the Sally.  The only question I have is, are there any Helen sentai/chutai reinforcements in the queue?  If so, you may not get them.  I won't be able to check until tonight.  Can someone check this?

That's a good question, there are a total of 74 in the queue for the Ia, though not until 12/43. It probably should be built, but not in numbers; you only have 10 engines in production, and probably the thing to do is keep it there, build a small stockpile, enough to fill out a few airframes. You may also need to produce Ia to start lines that auto-upgrade to better models. But producing lots of Helens is probably not a good idea anymore.

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:57 pm
by Historiker
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

One alternative is to produce ~30-40 Helens and change each group as they come out to Sallys.
what about the armour of both? Both unarmoured?

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:57 pm
by Grollub

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:05 pm
by NightFlyer

[quote]ORIGINAL: treespider

You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates

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If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:15 am
by treespider
ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

ORIGINAL: treespider

You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...

Do you really think 100 Ida's in Jun of 45 are as valuable as 24 Kates in 1942? [;)] If I don't get them, then I don't get them....

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:25 am
by Lützow
Can anybody give some general advices (or a brief rundown) about what to take care off / adjust / produce in the beginning?

Never played Japaneses in WitP but thought I'd give it a shot with AE now.

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:01 am
by NightFlyer
ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

ORIGINAL: treespider

You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...

Do you really think 100 Ida's in Jun of 45 are as valuable as 24 Kates in 1942? [;)] If I don't get them, then I don't get them....

You're right, the Kates are much more valuable in 41/42 than the Idas. However you won't get those air groups which can be upgraded to fly other more useful planes. I plan to build up just enough Ida's in my pool to get those groups, then stop Ida production, then upgrade the Ida groups to fly jets maybe [:'(] when they arrive. Another way to increase Kate production is by expanding the Kate factory which in my scenario (#2) was originally set at 0 [8|].

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:06 am
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: Lützow

Can anybody give some general advices (or a brief rundown) about what to take care off / adjust / produce in the beginning?

Never played Japaneses in WitP but thought I'd give it a shot with AE now.

Lützow, sorry for the cop out, but none of us really know at this point. We haven't had much time to digest it. The idea behind this thread is to discover that together.

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:09 am
by EUBanana
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
No more droves of AKs sitting in port. [:(]

Good good.

Image

Come to meeee, my loooove... </dracula>

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:14 am
by NightFlyer
Awesome pic of a Gato running on the surface. Is that the SF Golden Gate bridge on the left side of the pic? He also has his masts up, the show off

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:19 am
by EUBanana
This is a great thread. Now I've read it all. [&o]

The only reason I'm an AFB is because the Japanese economy stuff just blows my brains out...&nbsp;

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 am
by Andrew Brown
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

First Question: Has anything changed regarding the automatic movement of Resources between the Home Islands? I though I read somewhere that we now have to pick up and move Resources between Home Islands. Is this the case?

In WitP the free transfer of material between adjacent ports was unlimited. In AE it still happens but is limited. The rates are in the manual (Section 9.3.3.3 AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF BULK CARGO BETWEEN ADJACENT PORTS).


RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:37 am
by treespider
ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...

Do you really think 100 Ida's in Jun of 45 are as valuable as 24 Kates in 1942? [;)] If I don't get them, then I don't get them....

You're right, the Kates are much more valuable in 41/42 than the Idas. However you won't get those air groups which can be upgraded to fly other more useful planes. I plan to build up just enough Ida's in my pool to get those groups, then stop Ida production, then upgrade the Ida groups to fly jets maybe [:'(] when they arrive. Another way to increase Kate production is by expanding the Kate factory which in my scenario (#2) was originally set at 0 [8|].


Except when I upgrade the 100 or so Ida's that are on the map in 1941, they will (or should) be returned to pool and added to the 36 already there for use by the incoming groups in 1945...which would then be immediately upgraded ...returning the Ida's to the pool again for use ...etc etc...

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 am
by Elladan
ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

First Question: Has anything changed regarding the automatic movement of Resources between the Home Islands? I though I read somewhere that we now have to pick up and move Resources between Home Islands. Is this the case?

In WitP the free transfer of material between adjacent ports was unlimited. In AE it still happens but is limited. The rates are in the manual (Section 9.3.3.3 AUTOMATIC TRANSFER OF BULK CARGO BETWEEN ADJACENT PORTS).

Is there still a loss of certain percentage of material transferred in such a way?

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:00 am
by Mike Solli
ORIGINAL: treespider
ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

ORIGINAL: treespider




Do you really think 100 Ida's in Jun of 45 are as valuable as 24 Kates in 1942? [;)] If I don't get them, then I don't get them....

You're right, the Kates are much more valuable in 41/42 than the Idas. However you won't get those air groups which can be upgraded to fly other more useful planes. I plan to build up just enough Ida's in my pool to get those groups, then stop Ida production, then upgrade the Ida groups to fly jets maybe [:'(] when they arrive. Another way to increase Kate production is by expanding the Kate factory which in my scenario (#2) was originally set at 0 [8|].


Except when I upgrade the 100 or so Ida's that are on the map in 1941, they will (or should) be returned to pool and added to the 36 already there for use by the incoming groups in 1945...which would then be immediately upgraded ...returning the Ida's to the pool again for use ...etc etc...

Treespider, I have a question. I've only spent about 5 or so hours looking at the game so far.... Are there enough planes in the pool at the beginning of the war to be able to upgrade all the Idas? I don't have that info. Production is very limited (compared to WitP). What can an Ida upgrade to?

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:52 am
by Kitakami
Greetings all,

A few initial observations (and take them with a grain of salt, please) regarding IJN plane production (sans FPs and FFs):

1. Fighters: 219 on land, 159 on CVs, 72 replacements at start (including A5M4s). 3 CV/CVL-based and 30+ land-based A5M4/A6M2 groups as reinforcements. A6M2 production at 56/mo. This probably needs to be expanded to 150-200 Zeros/mo. Do take into account that there is a 0(24) A6M3 research factory in Nagoya that becomes operational on 6/42, so if production is tight, doubling A6M2 production might be enough if the A6M3 production is also doubled... but if there is one type of plane I'd rather not lack, it's fighters. Experience in small scenarios has taught me how unescorted bombers fare in AE.

2. Dive bombers: 32 on land, 135 on CVs, 24 replacements. D3A1 production at 12/mo. 2 CV-based and 15 land-based D3A1/2 groups as reinforcements. I think a more comfortable level of production would be something like 48/mo. but, again, I do not know if industry will support this.

3. Land bombers: 328 on land, 46 replacements (all G3M2s). G3M2 production at 22/mo, and G4M1 production at 25/mo. 3 G3M2 and 9 G4M1 groups as reinforcements. Maybe G4M1 production could be increased to 50/mo, and leave G3M2 production at its starting level, converting G3M2/3 production to G4M1 production later on?

4. Torpedo bombers: 68 on land, 189 on CVs, 144 replacements (only 32 B5N2 though). Production ZERO. 3 CV/CVL-based and 15 land-based torpedo groups as reinforcements. The 0(0) B5N2 factory in Hiroshima/Kure should be increased to 32 or 64/mo. Which? Again, depends on industry. I am siding on 64 at this point though... thse guys are the IJN air arm's sting...

5. Float planes and float fighters I will not comment on. Those should be far easier than the above to set "almost" right. Besides, taste varies a bit there (F1M2s aboard ships, or only E13A1s, for example).

All the above do NOT take the following into account:

a. Industry output: I have not gotten that far yet. Japanese production is an accountant's dream... or nightmare :)

b. IJA aircraft production: That is another task to tackle.

c. Engine production: with increased airframe production, engine production has to go up, obviously.

d. Later aircraft model production: I need about 6 months of war before I can begin thinking about what will be needed later.

Well, I hope my musings help us all to understand Japanese production needs a bit. As I wrote above, take it all with a grain of salt, as these are perceived needs... but I am sure if air production is expanded, we will need to stop producing something else... as it should be, I guess :)


Cheers!

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:22 pm
by NightFlyer
It doesn't seem like the Ida recon upgrades to anything [:(] so Spider may be right converting the factory straight off unless you like lots of recon [>:]. BTW, I found an amazing thread on aircraft upgrades/research on the WITP forums. The link is: tm.asp?m=968448

Here's a small taste of document you can download:



Image

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:37 pm
by racndoc
In regards to a previous question, in AE the Helens now have zero armor just as the Sallys so that is one more reason to ramp up Sally production vs the Helens.

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:54 pm
by Kitakami
ORIGINAL: NightFlyer

It doesn't seem like the Ida recon upgrades to anything [:(] so Spider may be right converting the factory straight off unless you like lots of recon [>:]. BTW, I found an amazing thread on aircraft upgrades/research on the WITP forums. The link is: tm.asp?m=968448

Here's a small taste of document you can download:

<snip>

I loved those charts... printed them on photo paper, to make them more durable :)
They have to be updated, of course, but if someone did the work, we would all benefit. They can be great help for planning air production.

RE: The Japanese Economy

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:02 pm
by NightFlyer
Yes they're very usefull I find as well. Be aware that there are some changes between WITP and AE, for instance, in WITP the Ida was Recon only but in AE it is classified as a Light Bomber although it still carries a camera and can do Recon/ELINT. Whew, I love this game!