Matrix Games Forums

Ah, i knew i was missing something, i was assuming the other times to repair was complete repair.

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: dwbradley

While trying out some of the new stuff I found what seems to be a bit of an awkward part of the new patrol zone controls.

I was playing the Coral Sea scenario as the Japanese and setting the subs to patrol zones. It is indeed a neat feature (well done, gentlemen!). The subs started on computer control. I was able to switch to human control and set both waypoints and patrol zones of several types. Then I set one sub for a single defined destination hex (DH) and then decided I wanted a patrol zone. I couldn't set a patrol zone because I had a defined location and there was no way I could see to cancel that. After some experimentation I found that setting the destination to the home port allowed the patrol zone controls to be un-greyed and available again. I guess this is an ok work-around and doesn’t need a fix but maybe should be in the manual errata/extras in due course.

Apologies if this is old news.

Dave Braldey

There is, or should be, a clear destination button in the upper right hand corner of the TF Routing screen. Not sure if it works for a non-base destination though. If not, it will probably have to stay that way for a while. The setting of destination to the home port is a good workaround.

My experience is with a non-sub TF, but I would expect the mechanism to work the same way regardless of type. I didn't notice the "clear destination" button Don mentions (and don't have enough RAM to have both the game and the forums open, so can't check right now), but if you click "Select Destination," and then right-click on the map, it clears the destination. Whether it's supposed to or not, I don't know, but I got the idea to try this from some other function where right-click is the documented way to clear the setting.

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

My experience is with a non-sub TF, but I would expect the mechanism to work the same way regardless of type. I didn't notice the "clear destination" button Don mentions (and don't have enough RAM to have both the game and the forums open, so can't check right now), but if you click "Select Destination," and then right-click on the map, it clears the destination. Whether it's supposed to or not, I don't know, but I got the idea to try this from some other function where right-click is the documented way to clear the setting.

I have no idea what you are talking about, Dave. Could you please be a bit more specific, in AE terms, thanks.

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

My experience is with a non-sub TF, but I would expect the mechanism to work the same way regardless of type. I didn't notice the "clear destination" button Don mentions (and don't have enough RAM to have both the game and the forums open, so can't check right now), but if you click "Select Destination," and then right-click on the map, it clears the destination. Whether it's supposed to or not, I don't know, but I got the idea to try this from some other function where right-click is the documented way to clear the setting.

I have no idea what you are talking about, Dave. Could you please be a bit more specific, in AE terms, thanks.

The problem is very deep and convoluted. The original poster of this issue set an At-Sea hex as a destination, then tried to create a Patrol Zone. Once can not create patrol zones for TFs that have destinations. So he tried to clear the destination and did not find a convenient way.

Now, there is a button on the TF Routing Screen to clear destination when the destination is a base. But when the destination is at At-Sea hex, this method does not work. It can not work, since At-Sea hex destinations is the pillar upon which Patrol Zones are built.

The only way to clear the destination was to first set it to a base, then use the normal clearing method. I'm not 100% sure what happens in the Right Click method above. The intent off Cancel during selection of destination was to allow the player to get out of the selection process cleanly. I don't recall exactly what it does but it goes thru some series of checks and defaults when you cancel.

There may be an issue here, but it is a small one with a simple workaround. Unless it becomes more of a problem it will probably wait a few patches.

The right click on the map to cancel a move has always worked - even i WitP.

Right click doesn't cancel. It sets the destination from a base to 'at sea'. Always has. Since UV days.

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Kull
By definition, the "Historical Start" automates everything that happened on December 7, 1941. And by almost every conceivable measure, it's clear that the Bombing of Pearl Harbor was the opening act of the Pacific War - certainly the war being modeled by AE. With that rule in mind, a minimal amount of research shows that TF "Z" set sail from Singapore at 1710 on December 8, 1941. However, that time needs to be converted to Honolulu time, since that was "ground zero", and in effect the "Greenwich Meantime" from which all other 12/7 activities must be calculated. And when you run the numbers, it turns out that Repulse and PoW departed Singapore harbor at 11:10 PM on December 7th, 1941.

What? How can 5:10 in the afternoon of December 8th (local time) be 11:10 on the 7th? Singapore is 6 time zones West of PH, so the PH attack took place at 2AM on the 8th Singapore local time. POW and Repulse upped anchor more than 15 hours after PH took place..., and almost at the end of the local day. If you want to go by Hawaiian time, remember that 11:10 PM is after night has has fallen..., which in game terms is the first (night) phase of turn two.

Let's do the math (although we seem to be in agreement, so I'm not sure where the "What?" comes from):

1) As you noted, 8 AM in Honolulu on 12/7 (roughly the time at which the attacks began) is 2 AM in Singapore on 12/8. So that's our baseline.
2) TF "Z" departed Singapore harbor at 1710 on 12/8. That's exactly 15 hours and ten minutes after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
3) Add 15 hours and ten minutes to 8 AM Honolulu time and it becomes 11:10 PM (or 2310), which is still 12/7/1941, and thus it's still "Day 1" in Singapore.

I hear you that night actions happen in a different phase of the game - effectively on Day 2 - but there's no easy way to handle that differential in-game.

It's simply a game device to make the POW/Repulse vulnerable. Historically they sailed North and were sunk (two days later)..., but as few players will make that choice it's been taken out of their hands... If you don't like it, don't play the "historical start".

Its probably just semantics, but in my personal opinion, since it's clear that the ships sailed on "12/7", it's no more a game device any of the other "no choice" activities that happen that day. But yes, those who don't like it do have an option!

I was trying to change my sub commander and I found no leaders that were suited to command a sub. The only recommendations were for surface combat ship or aux or cargo ship.

ORIGINAL: Kull
2) TF "Z" departed Singapore harbor at 1710 on 12/8. That's exactly 15 hours and ten minutes after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
3) Add 15 hours and ten minutes to 8 AM Honolulu time and it becomes 11:10 PM (or 2310), which is still 12/7/1941, and thus it's still "Day 1" in Singapore.

I hear you that night actions happen in a different phase of the game - effectively on Day 2 - but there's no easy way to handle that differential in-game.

It's simply a game device to make the POW/Repulse vulnerable. Historically they sailed North and were sunk (two days later)..., but as few players will make that choice it's been taken out of their hands... If you don't like it, don't play the "historical start".

Its probably just semantics, but in my personal opinion, since it's clear that the ships sailed on "12/7", it's no more a game device any of the other "no choice" activities that happen that day. But yes, those who don't like it do have an option!

A game "turn" has two 12-hour segments. a "night phase", followed by a "day phase". With "Historic" and "Suprise" ON, turn one has a "Magic move" (night phase), and begins with the second (or day phase).
So there are several ways to look at it.

The Day phase is 12 hours long, and the POW TF sailed 15 hours and 10 minutes after it began..., or

by Hawaiian time, the POW TF didn't leave port until after dark on the 7th (1st or night phase of turn two)..., or

stick to "local times", in which the POW TF left Singapore in the early evening of 12/08 and might have gotten a hex or so out to sea (cruise speed) before nightfall and the beginning of turn two..., still well out of range to be sighted and attacked.

In any of these cases, the POW TF could not be attacked on Game Turn One. So (as I said previously), it's vulnerability to such an attack is a "scenario design device", not an "historical reality"...

Just a minor issue: Essex class carriers had all four single 5" guns mounted on port not two on port and two on starboard.

ORIGINAL: Seeadler

Just a minor issue: Essex class carriers had all four single 5" guns mounted on port not two on port and two on starboard.

AE is correct here because as original the single 5" guns where all on the port side, on starboard are the 4 5" dual turrets, two before and two aft of the island.

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl



A game "turn" has two 12-hour segments. a "night phase", followed by a "day phase". With "Historic" and "Suprise" ON, turn one has a "Magic move" (night phase), and begins with the second (or day phase).
So there are several ways to look at it.

The Day phase is 12 hours long, and the POW TF sailed 15 hours and 10 minutes after it began..., or

by Hawaiian time, the POW TF didn't leave port until after dark on the 7th (1st or night phase of turn two)..., or

stick to "local times", in which the POW TF left Singapore in the early evening of 12/08 and might have gotten a hex or so out to sea (cruise speed) before nightfall and the beginning of turn two..., still well out of range to be sighted and attacked.

In any of these cases, the POW TF could not be attacked on Game Turn One. So (as I said previously), it's vulnerability to such an attack is a "scenario design device", not an "historical reality"...

The scenario designers were simply trying to replicate the historical reality that Force Z was committed to disrupt the landings in the first 24hours of the shooting war. All involved underestimated the skill of the IJN pilots and the capability (range) of their bombers. The historical start leaves the Allied player likely to pay the same price for their complacency the Allies actually did in the first moves of the war--thus historical start...From my perspective, this was one of the most elegent design choices the scenario designers made to put the Allied player really in the shoes of their historical counterparts. It makes running that first turn so much more exciting and shocking.

ORIGINAL: EnricoR

ORIGINAL: Seeadler

Just a minor issue: Essex class carriers had all four single 5" guns mounted on port not two on port and two on starboard.

AE is correct here because as original the single 5" guns where all on the port side, on starboard are the 4 5" dual turrets, two before and two aft of the island.

AE is not correct. Two single 5" mounts starboard and two single 5" mounts port. Quod erat demonstrandum!

ORIGINAL: Seeadler

ORIGINAL: EnricoR

ORIGINAL: Seeadler
Just a minor issue: Essex class carriers had all four single 5" guns mounted on port not two on port and two on starboard.

AE is correct here because as original the single 5" guns where all on the port side, on starboard are the 4 5" dual turrets, two before and two aft of the island.

AE is not correct. Two single 5" mounts starboard and two single 5" mounts port. Quod erat demonstrandum!

Holy firing arcs Batman ! Hate to see arguments over something like that.

Thing is, it's hard to determine the firing arcs for the twins since they are grouped so close together, but on one side of the vessel, although they do have a pretty good arc. So front?, right side? center? Maybe thing to do is 1 twin shooting front, 1 twin shooting rear, 2 twins shooting right side, and (yepperino folks) all 4 singles shooting left side.

Ship Class #171 and #172 Bangor Diesel Eng use the old 2pdr device (#76) instead of the new one (#1535) like the other Bangor classes.

Ship Class #2179 Shirataka uses the old Type 93 Mine device (#121) instead of the new one (#1712) like its upgrades do.

Ship Class #2122 Std-CT TK uses the old 13.2mm Type 93 AAMG device (#70) on the left side mount instead of the new one (#1683) like the rest of the mounts.

ORIGINAL: JuanG
Ship Class #171 and #172 Bangor Diesel Eng use the old 2pdr device (#76) instead of the new one (#1535) like the other Bangor classes.

Ship Class #2179 Shirataka uses the old Type 93 Mine device (#121) instead of the new one (#1712) like its upgrades do.

Ship Class #2122 Std-CT TK uses the old 13.2mm Type 93 AAMG device (#70) on the left side mount instead of the new one (#1683) like the rest of the mounts.

Got it. Damn, thought we found all those. Guess not. Gracias Juan. Keep them cards and letters coming folks.

The final Pennsylvania class upgrade (#314) is scheduled for 3/54, by which point she was long gone [:D]

This is way back on the first page. If anyone is not aware of the problem with off map turnarounds, please read this:
fb.asp?m=2179384

Were destoryers Crystal, Croziers, Crown, Cromewll, Creole, and Crispin actual RCN destroyers? All the sources I've looked at list them as being RN and then transfered to other countries after the war. Or were They Canadian manned RN ships?

ORIGINAL: J Boomer

Were destoryers Crystal, Croziers, Crown, Cromewll, Creole, and Crispin actual RCN destroyers? All the sources I've looked at list them as being RN and then transfered to other countries after the war. Or were They Canadian manned RN ships?

Sort-a.

After VE day, the RCN was to man a force of modern warships for Pacific Service. This force was set as two light carriers, 2 cruisers, and a full flotilla of destroyers. The crews from the ASW escorts that fought the Battle of the Atlantic were to be transferred to them. In addition, about 40 Canadian River class frigates were to tropicalized and assigned to the Pacific and Eastern Fleets.

The two carriers and two cruisers were transferred to the RCN, but only one or two of the cruisers before VJ day. The "Cr" flotilla was intended for transfer but this was aborted when the war ended. The first few of the PFs were in the Pacific by that time.

It's pushing it a bit, but the Cr Flotilla could have been completed somewhat earlier and become RCN.