Matrix Games Forums

Well, if that's true in your game then I would suggest you port KB for most of 42 .

In reality I think that with clarity of strategic thought and priorities you find that you don't end up porting KB for 11 months of the year. Instead you find yourself committing it ONLY to truly vital targets. If you truly identify vital targets correctly then you often force a reaction but even if you don't it doesn't matter since you've taken a truly vital target.

Either is fine as either serves your purposes... that's the acme of strategy, ensuring that no matter which option the enemy takes you can make it work to your benefit.


I think a reasonable example would be from my current game. It is mid-March and I've used the Allied CVs twice for about 7 days in total. In that time I captured the Marshall Islands from the Japanese and Marcus Island and destroyed about 40% of the IJN pre-war battleline. It also looks like any chance the IJN had of expanding into the Pacific was scuppered by this intervention. So, those were important strategic objectives.

Right now, mid-March 1942 there isn't a single position on the map vitally important enough that I would commit the Allied CVs to battle. So, they are sitting in port upgrading or running the occasional fighter ferrying mission as a form of training. I don't anticipate there being any need for the Allied CVs to engage in actual combat until the end of 1942. So, in the 13 months of war until the end of 1942 I expect them to have no more than the 6 or 7 days of combat they've already had. Even with that said I think 2 of those days of combat were errors and I shouldn't have committed them.

With KB less is most definitely more. When you have a big hammer it is tempting to use it a lot but I believe better players will only use it for strategically decisive targets.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Well, if that's true in your game then I would suggest you port KB for most of 42 .

In reality I think that with clarity of strategic thought and priorities you find that you don't end up porting KB for 11 months of the year. Instead you find yourself committing it ONLY to truly vital targets. If you truly identify vital targets correctly then you often force a reaction but even if you don't it doesn't matter since you've taken a truly vital target.

Either is fine as either serves your purposes... that's the acme of strategy, ensuring that no matter which option the enemy takes you can make it work to your benefit.


I think a reasonable example would be from my current game. It is mid-March and I've used the Allied CVs twice for about 7 days in total. In that time I captured the Marshall Islands from the Japanese and Marcus Island and destroyed about 40% of the IJN pre-war battleline. It also looks like any chance the IJN had of expanding into the Pacific was scuppered by this intervention. So, those were important strategic objectives.

Right now, mid-March 1942 there isn't a single position on the map vitally important enough that I would commit the Allied CVs to battle. So, they are sitting in port upgrading or running the occasional fighter ferrying mission as a form of training. I don't anticipate there being any need for the Allied CVs to engage in actual combat until the end of 1942. So, in the 13 months of war until the end of 1942 I expect them to have no more than the 6 or 7 days of combat they've already had. Even with that said I think 2 of those days of combat were errors and I shouldn't have committed them.

With KB less is most definitely more. When you have a big hammer it is tempting to use it a lot but I believe better players will only use it for strategically decisive targets.

Oh man - don't I even get to try at Pearl???

I am struggling a little with an apparent contradiction. In paragraph one, in mid-march, you've taken the Marshals and destroyed 40% of the battle line, but in paragraph two there is no single position on the map vitally important that you'd commit the allied CVs to? I think the point you are making is that you did attack in mid-march, it was a smashing success, and now the carriers go away again because you can't see any reason to bring them out again and risk them - since (I imagine) - you assess the Japanese ability to be offensive to be severely curtailed, but that you don't have the strength or quality of carriers (and planes) to go on the offensive yourself.

Actually, the example you've given - one you'll have to pardon me that I'm not familiar with - implies that you chanced your arm incredibly. Taking the Marshals in March 42 would mean you had started prepping for these locations at the beginning of the game, that you used APx shipping as amphibious invasion vessels, as you wouldn't have enough APs to carry invasion forces for all the islands in one load (which means you may have had to take multiple bites at it - surely creating an IJN response - one it appears you won - but wouldn't have known ahead of time).
All in all this implies wonderful forethought and chancing the loss of the south pacific in order to use their historical defenders as offensive forces in the Marshals.
All hypothesis - I'll take a look at your AAR (I imagine it is an AARed game?)

Arguably, putting a burr under the Allied saddle and causing them to take great caution with convoys and to keep resources in Hawaii does have a strategic purpose.

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Arguably, putting a burr under the Allied saddle and causing them to take great caution with convoys and to keep resources in Hawaii does have a strategic purpose.

Nothing is strategic unless Nemo says it is. [:D]

Mandrake, arguably but from the AAR I dont get a sense of the raids as being part of such a cohesive strategy. They seem to be ad hoc, operational level things, not part of an overall strategic plan to shape the Allied position greatly.

Maybe it is but it just hasn't been fully explained yet. That's always possible.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Mandrake, arguably but from the AAR I dont get a sense of the raids as being part of such a cohesive strategy. They seem to be ad hoc, operational level things, not part of an overall strategic plan to shape the Allied position greatly.

Maybe it is but it just hasn't been fully explained yet. That's always possible.

There is a doctrine at work here. I've hinted at it but perhaps have not stated it explicitly. I am using surface forces and KB to penetrate deeply into Allied territory and hit locations that Allied players, in my experience, like to use as staging areas for troops and resources. The object of this is psychological rather than material. I am always happy to destroy enemy shipping when I find it but the real idea is to induce fear and caution in my opponent.

In my game against Q-Ball I allowed him to become entirely too comfortable operating behind his own lines. The same is true to some extent with my game against Erstad. The only reason that game has gone better than the one against Q-Ball is that my defensive dispositions are less flawed. What this has taught me, however, is that there is a limit to what defensive preparations can accomplish for Japan in AE.

Which leads me to this game and the idea that perhaps the best way to stop Allied offensives is by trying to keep them from getting launched in the first place. To that end I want to keep my opponent thinking defensively. The raids against bases and sea lanes are part of this concept.

In general I agree with Nemo that KB should be used as sparingly as possible. I think at one point in the game against Erstad we went nearly a year without a Japanese carrier being seen. But in this game KB will appear enough in the early going to establish the idea that I am likely to use my carriers aggressively. We will see how it works. I am not, frankly, a great strategist. I operate much better at a tactical level. But I do like to think I can admit my mistakes and learn from them and slowly I am groping towards a Japanese doctrine that is both reasonably effective and fun for me to play.

Without revealing too much about my plans in my current Japanese PBEM, I'd say that yes, I believe harassing raids against Allies are worthwhile, as long as they don't interfere with your timetable for strategic offensive operations and do not waste your valuable assets in attacking heavily defended targets. Simple demonstration that you're willing to go and blow up Allied stuff, both with carriers and SCTFs is likely to force positive effects that are not limited to the direct damage from attacks, such as convoys being rerouted to safer sealanes and naval assets being spread out for anti-raider patrols and convoy escorting.

All of this will slow down Allied buildup in the first months of the war, when Allies are relatively short on troop-carrying capacity and reduce their ability to concentrate surface assets.

Ok, interesting Cuttlefish.... Could you outline the other aspects of your strategic plan into which the raids fit? I'm curious as to how you're going to pin him back.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Ok, interesting Cuttlefish.... Could you outline the other aspects of your strategic plan into which the raids fit? I'm curious as to how you're going to pin him back.

- I will attempt to maintain the strategic initiative. I have a bad habit of reaching a pre-determined line and then digging in behind it. In this game I intend to try and keep my opponent reacting to my moves, not waiting to react to his.

- I am going to try and be much better at gathering intelligence about my opponent's dispositions and thus intentions. I want to get the most possible use out of long-range aircraft, submarines (and especially sub-based Glens), and small, fast SCTFs to find out where his forces are (and where they are not - I want to know where seams in his air-search patterns are).

- Information thus gathered will be used to disrupt and threaten forward bases that look like they are being used as springboards for offensive operations.

- There are so many possible invasion points that there is no way for Japan to cover them all. When most lowly dot-hex bases can be turned very quickly by the Allies into major bases a static defense seems like an exercise in futility. I am going to reverse my usual practice of using my infantry divisions as garrisons and instead keep a large force ready to counterattack or counter-invade. KB and the bulk of the Combined Fleet will also be held ready for this purpose.

I guess the sum of all this is that I will use small, fast forces to keep my opponent off balance and to maintain at least the illusion that I retain the initiative. When, inevitably, Allied attacks do occur they will be met by reserve forces. All this will require a more aggresive mind-set than I have had previously - it will be interesting to see how it works.

January 14, 1942 - January 17, 1942

I'm on vacation and running turns and accessing the forums as time and internet access permit. A few developments worth noting have happened, though more detailed information (and screen shots) will have to wait a few days.

Pacific: Allied CVs Escape. Kido Butai found no evidence of the Allied carriers near Pearl. Some B-17s attacked, and five were shot down at a cost of five Zeros (the -D model is easier to bring down than the -E and -F types). Meanwhile KB found and destroyed an ASW task force (one DM and three PCs) and a small amphibious TF at Palmyra (three xAKs and a DM). Having to be content with this meager prey my carriers have faded once again into the mist and are on their way back to Truk.

China: Loyang is Captured. Japanese forces advanced from Chengchow to Loyang, taking the base on the first assault and inflicting a massive number of casualties in the process. I am going to try and drive next on Nanyang before Charbroiled can consolidate his forces. The capture of Chengchow and Loyang has occured very quickly and I want to keep the Chinese reeling.

Luzon: Japan 1, Forts 0. I'm still getting 1 to 1 odds at Clark but the forts there are now down to zero. This should make my air attacks and bombardments more effective and I hope to wear the defenders down quickly. A big question is where the defenders will retreat when they are finally forced out - Manila or Bataan?

Malaya: A Second Pocket Forms. Japanese forces have succeeded in isolating the Allied units at Temuloh. This pocket consists of seven units, though the reported number of troops trapped is down from 6000 to 3000 as recon reports become more refined.

Nice going. I am going to watch to see how this works. I lost the initiative in my game in August 42. I like ideas that may keep it longer.

January 14, 1942 – January 25, 1942

I’m back from vacation at last and able to do an update. In this installment we learn that the only problem with looking for trouble all the time is that occasionally you find it. But though Japan loses its first capital ship of the war the aggressive approach has meant that so far no Japanese invasion force has been intercepted.

Malaya: Tip of the Spear. Japanese units have captured Malacca, so now there is only one more stop before Singapore itself. In the meantime the Temuloh pocket is well and truly sealed and the 2nd Division is advancing to eliminate the units therein (recon estimates of the troops trapped are up again, to about 10,000).

DEI: Allied Victory in the Banda Sea. The Japanese drive down the Makassar Strait is proceeding well. In a bit of very good news the oil and refinery centers at Samarinda and Balikpapan were captured 100% intact, with large stores of fuel and oil falling into the eagerly waiting hands of the Empire.

Tanaka’s Southern Force (Haruna, Kongo, and friends) pushed through the Sunda Strait and hit Tjilitjap, which in my experience Allied players often use to try and remove fuel from Java in the early going. They found nothing there, however, so they wandered down to Koepang, where they sank a lone xAKL. As they looped up into the Banda Sea they ran into CL Marblehead and five DDs. Marblehead was sunk and two DDs badly damaged, while one Japanese DD was hit hard enough to be detached and sent back to Cam Rahn Bay for repairs.

The following turn a massive Allied force appeared. The only major ships were BC Repulse and CA Houston but there were seven CLs and thirteen DDs with them. This force first found and dispatched the crippled Japanese DD (Oshio), then engaged Tanaka’s force.

On paper, with two battleships and three heavy cruisers, the Japanese might have scored a major victory. But my ships had expended all their torpedoes and a lot of their main gun ammo against the smaller force the night before and in the close-range encounter Haruna was quickly crippled by Allied torpedoes. The battleship later sank, as did DD Asashio. A number of Allied ships sustained moderate damage and Repulse had fires aboard but I doubt any of the Allied ships sank.

The battle, while a defeat, did discover the Allied force and damaged it enough to prevent it from interfering with Japanese operations, which is what I am sure that force was dispatched to do. Also on the plus side, Hibiki emerged from the battles unscathed and performed with distinction, putting a shell into DD Bulmer at 17,000 yards (pretty good shooting).

Luzon: Reserves Dispatched. The Allied force at Clark is hanging tough so I have dispatched a reserve division, the 4th, to speed things along there. Allied dispositions remain unchanged.

Pacific: New Britain Invasion. Japanese forces will begin landing at Rabaul, Gasmata, Kavieng, and several other bases in the area next turn. These invasions are covered by a powerful SCTF and Kido Butai will be on scene as soon as it refuels and rearms at Truk, which should happen next turn.

China: Loyang Is Captured. Loyang fell to the first Japanese attack and the divisions involved have turned and are now driving on Nanyang. Chinese forces are finally moving to consolidate but I think they will be too late to save the city from quick capture. This will secure the north-central China plain and its important supply centers.

In the south a Chinese corps pushed past Chuhsien, which is in my hands, and captured Shaohing. The corps is about to be surrounded and destroyed by Japanese forces, though, so this will be a short-lived triumph for the Chinese.

Burma: Stalemate at Pegu. The Allied forces in Burma are standing at Pegu. The Japanese 33rd Division and supporting armor are unable to evict them but are too powerful to be driven back. If Charbroiled maintains this posture after the fall of Singapore it may get interesting. I have taken to heart Andy Mac’s recent comments about the importance of destroying Burma Corps to prevent an early Allied counterattack in Burma. It’s hard to do if the Allies run away, but if they stand and try to slug it out…


The situation in Malaya:

The situation in the Makassar Strait:

The Japanese advance in north-central China:

January 26, 1942 – January 31, 1942

As we reach the end of the second month of the war Charbroiled takes the usual Allied script and pitches it out the window. My preconceptions of how things are going to proceed go out the window with it. This is a classic case of your opponent doing what he can do, not what you think he is going to do. With good play, however, I can turn his moves against him in classic jiu-jitsu fashion. With bad play…well, let’s keep a positive outlook.

Burma: Allies Land at Moulmein. At least two Allied units began landing at Moulmein on 31 January. Bad weather prevented Japanese aircraft at Bangkok from launching against the Allied ships and the only Japanese units there are rear-echelon. This move is either madness or inspiration on my opponent’s part. Time will tell which.

Making things more interesting is the fact that the Allied position in Malaya is nearing collapse. If things go as I hope Singapore might fall within the week. This will free up Japanese forces and give me an interesting range of options to deal with Burma.

Pacific: Allies Infest the Solomons. Rabaul held a robust number of Allied troops but not enough to withstand the 54th Division. After a battle of several days the defenders, which included among other troops the 11th and 2nd Australian Brigades and the 32nd and 38th Australian Battalions, were ousted. I’m not sure if all these units started at Rabaul or whether my opponent was reinforcing. At any rate the survivors fled into the jungle.

Kido Butai came down through the Solomons to cover the landings and found shipping at Shortlands. They sank an xAK and three xAPs there but the ships had apparently finished unloading their troops – recon reports around 5000 or 6000 Allied troops there. Continuing down the chain more shipping was found and destroyed at Lunga. Sunk were CL Leander, two AKs, and four xAKs. There was a destroyer as well and the sight of 50 Kates with highly skilled pilots trying and failing to sink it in a follow-up attack was instructive.

Recon shows a whopping number of Allied troops on Lunga, almost 30,000. It’s hard for me to envision this as anything but a large future POW camp but time will tell.

Malaya: The End is Near? Two Japanese divisions, the Imperial Guards and the 55th, are about to enter Johore Bahru, which is weakly held. Singapore doesn’t look much better defended. Meanwhile the Temuloh pocket is being squeezed. I think we are entering the mopping-up stage in this area.

Luzon: Reserves Arrive. Fresh Japanese troops have landed at Lingayen and will soon enter the fray at Clark.

China: Wading Through the Hordes. Japanese units have reached Nanyang and will attack next turn. The march to Nanyang was really destructive. In every hex anywhere from two to five Chinese corps was encountered and smashed with heavy casualties. One hex was cleared only to be occupied next turn by four new corps, which were in turn driven out. The butchery has been appalling. Losses on this scale have to make the Chinese defense more difficult – I think. One thing the Chinese aren’t short on is manpower. And I have seen shattered Chinese corps used effectively as infiltrators (Q-Ball did this to me a bit and Erstad did it a lot).

If Nanyang falls quickly I am planning on clearing my supply lines a bit and then driving towards Sain.

Miscellaneous Mayhem: Allied bombers sank a couple of Japanese xAPs at Gasmata. Allied submarines picked off an xAP and xAK in the Makassar Strait. The latter two ships were carrying base force and aviation HQ troops to Balikpapan. Fortunately I always load my troops on more transports than necessary in order to minimize losses en route due to the cowardly Allied lurkers beneath the waves.

Japanese submarines have not been idle. An I-boat took a shot at Enterprise off Palmyra on 27 January. It missed but the intel on the location of at least one Allied carrier was very valuable. And several Allied xAKs have been sunk during the period, off Exmouth, off Port Moresby, and near French Frigate Shoals.

Below is the screen for the end of the month:

I feel like I should be familiar with Charbroiled's experience and skill as a player since I've seen his name so often, but I really amn't (that's an odd word to use in today's language).  Can you give us a brief summary of your evaluation of his ability to this point?

The Moulmein move might (or might not) be an effective little spoiling attack for him, but to occupy Lunga with a major force in early 1942 sounds like a recipe for Allied disaster against a capable opponent who doesn't rattle.

The first instinct when the Allies launch offensives that early should be "This could be an opportunity".

Committing major land forces to the Solomons in January 1942, while inconvenient in the short-term, is doing you a favor. Those troops are toast. In fact, you could easily have just left them in Rabaul and moved on, getting them later, sort of a reverse Cartwheel. After a few months without supplies a Nav Gd could clean them up.

Moulmein? That sounds like a waste. It will divert a few troops to contain them, but good luck running supplies there.

One of the best positions to be in is have your opponent "Tethered" to some cut-off troops. They will waste ships and planes trying to extract them/supply them, while you fight on your home turf.

In my game vs. Hemajor, he invaded the Marshalls with 60K allies, at 3 bases, Mili, Makin, Tarawa. They are all now back with the Empire, and all 60K US troops are POWs, and he lost alot of capital ships trying to sustain an effort there from Hawaii, while I had bases much closer by. Anytime the Allies fight early on YOUR turf, is a very good thing.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I feel like I should be familiar with Charbroiled's experience and skill as a player since I've seen his name so often, but I really amn't (that's an odd word to use in today's language).  Can you give us a brief summary of your evaluation of his ability to this point?

The Moulmein move might (or might not) be an effective little spoiling attack for him, but to occupy Lunga with a major force in early 1942 sounds like a recipe for Allied disaster against a capable opponent who doesn't rattle.

Evaluation...I'm not sure I can say yet. He handles his forces well enough, with the only major mistake being the massacre of all those ships from the PI at Tarakan. On a deeper level he is trying what seems to be the total opposite of the Sir Robin approach; his forces are not only standing their ground but advancing where he gets the chance. It's costing him a lot of troops and ships so far but it will be a few months before the success or failure of this strategy can be evaluated.

Not only are Lunga and Shortlands garrisoned, his emails indicate that I captured Rabaul before he could send further reinforcements there. From what he says I gather that he has had success in the past defending the New Britain/Solomons area this way. While I don't know I would bet that the Japanese player in that case allowed himself to be drawn into a classic battle of attrition. I have no intention of falling for that; as Q-Ball pointed out the thing to do is just bypass those forward bases and use them for target practice until the garrisons are practically begging to be taken prisoner.

If he is defending that far forward this early, there must be almost nothing further back such as at Noumea, Suva, or Pago-Pago. I think he has used up all his non-restricted ground units garrisoning the Solomons. Your idea of bypass and blockade seems like a good one. Rabaul can be a base from which to anchor a blockade of the Solomons. I would recommend taking Port Moreseby quickly, however, lest he build that up to a point where you will not be able to take it. With any spare forces beyond the Port Moresby operation I would recommend a lunge south as quickly as possible. Surface forces can bombard Shortlands and Lunga while the KB waits for the allied carriers to show up as they have to if he expects to hold on to these possessions. Keep the KB together with the expectation that the allied carriers will show up.

The consensus is BYPASS. In fact, early on in the game I would argue that the only points on the map you cannot bypass, but HAVE to take, are Singapore, and the OIL CENTERS. That's it. Singapore is vital because you can't really get into the Bay of Bengal until it's taken.