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RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:02 am
by Dili
ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper
So what would be your idea? everyone plots their moves at same time?
Yes, I know that WEGO system is not a easy thing to do but I'm getting tired to play in this way (speaking about pc wargame of course).
WitP is a perfect example how this system can be funny to play and more challenging as well.
Also I remember Ageod American Civil War, two weeks per turn and still absolutely playable.
WitE is a fantastic game, very detailed and complicated but I noticed that something is missing, I discussed about that with other players and personally, I found what I think is missing for my taste: the simultaneity.
Initially is intriguing discover the right path, which attack will be more efficient or the best defence against a breakthrough, then I understand that surprise is a factor too important.
Thanks to good recon you know exactly where the units are, no way to do a probe attack or mask an encirclement, playing WitP or AACW there is a totally different feeling, your units can be intercepted or moved in a wrong direction, with IGO-UGO is almost impossible.
Said that, I think that WitE is a very good game but simply I don't like the design system decisions [:)]
Sorry i have understood you wrong. Yes the WEGO is much better.
I actually i am a bit disapointed by strategy games evolution's, it seems going in circles. I don't know if that is due to lack of developments in code language to make it easier to do -know nothing about that -, AI or other things. I think it is telling that i still remember the failed Road to Moscow and what it promised.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:11 am
by kafka
I would bet that War in the West will allow Germany almost complete control over production. Since The strategic bombing will be a major factor for the Allies. I would not be able to fathom how the game could be playable with a "fixed" production. Since the Allies would just bomb the factories to dust that produce the best weapons etc. Take out the Tiger factory, then the Panther factory and just continue working down the list.
yes, I really hope they include some kind of control over production because otherwise I won't get the next game. I purchased WITE, and its really a shame that the absence of any control over production has ruined an otherwise excellent game (overseeing some UI problems), at least to me.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:05 pm
by IronDuke_slith
ORIGINAL: kafka
I would bet that War in the West will allow Germany almost complete control over production. Since The strategic bombing will be a major factor for the Allies. I would not be able to fathom how the game could be playable with a "fixed" production. Since the Allies would just bomb the factories to dust that produce the best weapons etc. Take out the Tiger factory, then the Panther factory and just continue working down the list.
yes, I really hope they include some kind of control over production because otherwise I won't get the next game. I purchased WITE, and its really a shame that the absence of any control over production has ruined an otherwise excellent game (overseeing some UI problems), at least to me.
I wouldn't buy it unless production was optional at best. Creating unhistorical TOEs or getting the Panther in 1940 would just ruin the whole experience. Any realistic production model, which accurately modelled the German constraints of raw materials and oil, wouldn't give you that much flexibility anyway.
Still, each to his own.
regards,
ID.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:42 pm
by Jeffrey H.
ORIGINAL: Lützow
Would rather like to see Africa. Sicily and Normandy are the least interesting theatres from Axis perspective.
A North Africa theater version would be more interesting to me than a Western Europe one.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:28 am
by MechFO
ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper
So what would be your idea? everyone plots their moves at same time?
Yes, I know that WEGO system is not a easy thing to do but I'm getting tired to play in this way (speaking about pc wargame of course).
WitP is a perfect example how this system can be funny to play and more challenging as well.
Also I remember Ageod American Civil War, two weeks per turn and still absolutely playable.
WitE is a fantastic game, very detailed and complicated but I noticed that something is missing, I discussed about that with other players and personally, I found what I think is missing for my taste: the simultaneity.
Initially is intriguing discover the right path, which attack will be more efficient or the best defence against a breakthrough, then I understand that surprise is a factor too important.
Thanks to good recon you know exactly where the units are, no way to do a probe attack or mask an encirclement, playing WitP or AACW there is a totally different feeling, your units can be intercepted or moved in a wrong direction, with IGO-UGO is almost impossible.
Said that, I think that WitE is a very good game but simply I don't like the design system decisions [:)]
If not WEGO than at least a system like in TOAW where there's a certain need to synchronise. One of the parts where WITE doesnt make sense is that a unit can fight all week, open a hole, and another unit can warp through with the entire movement allowance of a week. This creates all kinds of knock on balance problems.
Though unlike TOAW one should be able to control the amount of time one wants to invest in a combat.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:21 pm
by paullus99
Strategic bombing is going to be tricky at best - the allies missed a huge opportunity to target the German power-grid, thinking it would be difficult, if not impossible to inflict significant damage.....after the war, they found out that if they had targeted about three dozen key energy generation plants, they could have inflicted fatal damage on the German war economy.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:39 pm
by vinnie71
Maybe research could be abstracted (ex pay a certain level of resources every turn for so many turns) with only production being really adjustable. Also upgrades to factories should follow a clear path (ex if a factory produced chassis X as a tank, it can only upgrade to producing either the same, but more advanced tank or maybe an SP variant). That way we can limit people from changing a facility for Pz II's over to Tiger production).
But a major rethinking should be made of the TOE's upgrades. A player should be able to decide if he wants an upgrade or not.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:10 am
by jaw
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
I would bet that War in the West will allow Germany almost complete control over production. Since The strategic bombing will be a major factor for the Allies. I would not be able to fathom how the game could be playable with a "fixed" production. Since the Allies would just bomb the factories to dust that produce the best weapons etc. Take out the Tiger factory, then the Panther factory and just continue working down the list.
Same as in WITP, since strategic bombing was a major factor hence why Japan has control over production.
I can see no other way to make the game playable otherwise.
At the moment there is no German control of production but we are still in very early development. That said however, your strategy of bombing fixed production factories would not work. These factories are hard to damage and repair very quickly. Better strategy is to bomb basic industries like synthetic oil plants and degrade the German railnet by bombing marshalling yards.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:18 am
by 2ndACR
Your breaking my heart there Jaw.......I sure hope they add it in.....it would really add to the game for the better IMO.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:48 am
by Baelfiin
I think it will be interesting to see how the strategic bombing campaign goes.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:55 pm
by gradenko2k
It would be a massive coup if the strategic bombing portion of WITW ended up being better than the game designed specifically for it. I could never really get into Bombing the Reich, hard as I tried.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:17 pm
by pompack
ORIGINAL: Baelfiin
I think it will be interesting to see how the strategic bombing campaign goes.
Try BTR [:D]. Just as the basic air combat model for UV/WitP used BTR as a starting point, I suspect that that WitW will trace a heritage back to that Grigsby game as well.
Of course daily turns with the ability to target anything with anything does make BTR play just about as slowly as WitP [:)]
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:53 pm
by vinnie71
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Your breaking my heart there Jaw.......I sure hope they add it in.....it would really add to the game for the better IMO.
+1
Since basically the allies have got several inexhaustable sources of materiel that are beyond the German's reach, its only fair that the Axis get to do some tweaking to their production. Basically if the Axis are not allowed some leeway in production and unit recruitment, what's the point of playing? The Axis had some wasted opportunities, why do we have to repeat their mistakes?
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:29 pm
by Karri
ORIGINAL: jaw
ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
I would bet that War in the West will allow Germany almost complete control over production. Since The strategic bombing will be a major factor for the Allies. I would not be able to fathom how the game could be playable with a "fixed" production. Since the Allies would just bomb the factories to dust that produce the best weapons etc. Take out the Tiger factory, then the Panther factory and just continue working down the list.
Same as in WITP, since strategic bombing was a major factor hence why Japan has control over production.
I can see no other way to make the game playable otherwise.
At the moment there is no German control of production but we are still in very early development. That said however, your strategy of bombing fixed production factories would not work. These factories are hard to damage and repair very quickly. Better strategy is to bomb basic industries like synthetic oil plants and degrade the German railnet by bombing marshalling yards.
How about units and TOEs?
RE: War in the West
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:37 pm
by heliodorus04
ORIGINAL: Offworlder
Since basically the allies have got several inexhaustable sources of materiel that are beyond the German's reach, its only fair that the Axis get to do some tweaking to their production. Basically if the Axis are not allowed some leeway in production and unit recruitment, what's the point of playing? The Axis had some wasted opportunities, why do we have to repeat their mistakes?
Replace the word "allies" with "Soviets" and read the irony.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:49 am
by vicberg
ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
ORIGINAL: Offworlder
Since basically the allies have got several inexhaustable sources of materiel that are beyond the German's reach, its only fair that the Axis get to do some tweaking to their production. Basically if the Axis are not allowed some leeway in production and unit recruitment, what's the point of playing? The Axis had some wasted opportunities, why do we have to repeat their mistakes?
Replace the word "allies" with "Soviets" and read the irony.
+1
Looks like another completely unbalanced game. I think I'll hold off on this one.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:30 am
by gradenko2k
ORIGINAL: heliodorus04
Replace the word "allies" with "Soviets" and read the irony.
Aren't the Germans able to deal significant damage to Soviet industry through City Bombing air missions? Or at least, whatever the Soviets haven't evacuated to Chlakov yet. The only reason I don't do it myself is because I heard it was a frowned upon practice.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:13 am
by amatteucci
I renew the suggestion I wrote
here.
If the Axis player will have the possibility of shifting forces between fronts, he'll feel less framed into a preset schedule, even if he's not able to tinker the production.
RE: War in the West
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:43 am
by kafka
Looks like another completely unbalanced game.
the problem being there is a vocal minority who thinks this should be no game at all, and in order to achieve this the gameplay has to be reduced by putting the 'player' into an 'historical' straight jacket. Anyway since I simply don't like such reduced gameplay I guess I'll have to spend my money on something else, as there are so many other opportunities
RE: War in the West
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:45 am
by jaw
ORIGINAL: Karri
How about units and TOEs?
What do you want to know about units and TOEs?