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Turn 13, AGC:

In Army Group Center's sector, our drive on Moscow and Rhzev is halted; I don't have the horses to move further, and Von Beanie has quite a few troops in front of Moscow, well dug-in.

Pz Gp 3 is resting and accumulating Fuel; one more turn, and we will probably use them south of Moscow to help clear OREL, or maybe NORTH toward the Valdai hills. Haven't decided yet.

Below, is what Pz Gp 2 is up to. This is an extreme example of Von Beanie's Checkerboard defense, a modified one is that he is stacking up front. I personally don't like this defense much, but it does do a few positive things.

There is no way to get a clean 3-hex wide breakthrough, because the stacks are too strong to blast through. There is some depth as well, so my exploitation is limited. What you can do, though, is surround the stacks by doing nothing more than driving; no combat occurred in the below shot.

No Panzers were Harmed in the forming of these pockets![:'(]

And that is how you do it. Just cut off stacks and kill them next turn. It is slow going but it protects your troops. Do the same in the south and have the Romanians take the stacks out to increase morale and exp. Easy meat. I would have 9 Romanian Div attacking each stack with Deliberate attacks to maximize the number that can gain exp etc.

thats the problem with "stacks with gaps" defense.  You have high morale and good MPs you can just drive into and thru the zocs.  A waste of good soviet units. At the very least those stacks should have been backstopped

Sigh. He coulda done a perfectly good carpet defense there and just done a tar baby on you.

Has your opponent ever played the Germans Q-ball? He seems to have a misunderstanding of just how much more mobile they are.

Great start Qball. I've lurked on your WITP games and you certainly grasp this one as well. Your AAR's are always a fun and educational read.


Could you please post a current screenie of destroyed Russian formations and casualties?

My sense is that you are still under 3M inflicted and less than 100 formations. This will help your opponent come Blizzard as his "Army Quality" will be higher than average.

My .02 is that all of your actions should now focus on one thing.

Killing Russians!!!

He needs to start digging, LOL

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Turn 13, AGC:

In Army Group Center's sector, our drive on Moscow and Rhzev is halted; I don't have the horses to move further, and Von Beanie has quite a few troops in front of Moscow, well dug-in.

Pz Gp 3 is resting and accumulating Fuel; one more turn, and we will probably use them south of Moscow to help clear OREL, or maybe NORTH toward the Valdai hills. Haven't decided yet.

Below, is what Pz Gp 2 is up to. This is an extreme example of Von Beanie's Checkerboard defense, a modified one is that he is stacking up front. I personally don't like this defense much, but it does do a few positive things.

There is no way to get a clean 3-hex wide breakthrough, because the stacks are too strong to blast through. There is some depth as well, so my exploitation is limited. What you can do, though, is surround the stacks by doing nothing more than driving; no combat occurred in the below shot.

No Panzers were Harmed in the forming of these pockets![:'(]

Where may I send my donation to the Panzer Preservation Society?[:D]

Because you have captured Leningrad, I think the Finnish moral issue is gone. There is a Finnish moral rule in place for any Finnish unit that moves past the no attack line if Leningrad is not captured.

What does his Svir river line defense look like? If you can get a strike force of Finns over there, you might be able to go for a double evelopment and basically wack all those Russians on the Volkhov.

Finally, I think your strat for getting into the Valdi hills is sound, except I think you need to look at the rail lines in the area. Driving up that rail line south of Lake Ilmen to the rail junction coming up from the SW (and occupying that rail line there) will be very helpful.

Bad tactics on his part in front of Moscow. He is going to miss those guys later.

I don't think the Finnish morale rule is tied to Leningrad, but I don't have the rules handy.

I just read the rule on it. It is not very clear to me one way or other. There is no question that if the Finns are over the no attack line and Leningrad is not captured, they suffer moral issues and can't attack. Restrictions are removed on attacking, but it is not very clear on the moral issue. My interpretation is that there is no moral penalty if Leningrad has been captured. Perhaps one of the testers can sound off on this. 

One of the AARs mentioned the Finns were still losing morale after Leningrad had fallen. Now I forget which one.......

I interpret the manual's rules as stating the Finns lose morale south of the line whether Leningrad is Axis or not.

I played a game vs. the AI, and took Leningrad. I left the Finns in place along the Volkhov. Through the winter, they were supermen, but as 1942 went on, morale kept going down into the 60s. They started looking like Northern Romanians. It didn't matter vs. the AI, but against a human I will probably have to rotate them. They definitely lose morale south of that line.

Through the Winter, though, I expect us to be desperate, so we'll leave them there.



Turn 13, AGS:

This turn, we used HQ Buildup to.......well, just surround a few divisions. Von Beanie's defense is not all bad, as it does prevent a deep penetration (no jokes please!)

Here is the front near Stalino. With recon, I know there are size-3 Forts all over the place. It might be tough to take, though I want to anyway, even if I lose it in winter.

PS: Aren't those Romanian Cav/Arm units just BEGGING to be whacked? I would, but I am a stone-cold killin' Red Player.

Anyway, another stack attack around Stalino:

Turn 14: Loss Screen

Someone asked about Losses on Turn 14; here it is. I think I'm behind; I'll probably end up close to 3 mil Reds lost. On the bright side, I expect to lose 400K by the Mud.

Thoughts?

Think your on the money but I would start shaking out a defencive line even now to get to fort 4. I wouldnt worry too much about geographical objectives. Kill Soviet units as fast as possible.

If he wants to leave cav units where you can get at them, crush em. A Russian with little cav in the winter is far less dangerous.

Shame about the Finns on the moral loss. I would like to see that reconsidered with the occupation of Leningrad that the moral loss penalty goes away.

Thanks, I was the one who asked. Your unit count is better than I thought. Problem is that he will have higher morale and experience because his manpower is on the map instead of the dead pile.


KILL MORE RUSSIANS!!!!!![:)]

Stabuck: Unit destruction has actually always been my #1 priority. Problem is unit preservation has always been Von Beanie's #1 priority, so he is trading space for time. Unit destruction has been tough because:
1. Logistics are a constant problem for my Panzers. I have to rest them every other turn to accumulate fuel if I don't do HQ Buildup. But I've done 4 of those, and my truck pool is straining.
2. He keeps moving back, so I rarely have a chance to plow holes with Infantry, because they use up too many MPs just closing with the Russians. Turn 13 was the first turn they could really get at it, and I pocketed a bunch of units. This turn, the Panzers are too low on gas to exploit holes, and alot of my Infantry used up MPs in liquidating pockets.

Klydon: Good point on Cav, though at present I see exactly 2 Cav division on the front line. He is clearly hoarding them somewhere. I have whacked the ones that are there, but for the most part they are somewhere else........ominously. Not looking forward to that!

OKH Update, Turn 14 and 15:

Let it be known we both just PATCHED; everything through turn 14 was pre-German helping patch. Now, we are on the new BETA.

Our Summer offensive is winding down. Since the capture of Leningrad, our final phase of the offensive focused on several objectives. Foremost, the killing and Capturing of REDS. I also wanted to clear more ground for the Winter, with the concurrent objectives of clearing several cities in the south, including Kursk, Orel, Kharkov, and the Donbas Cities.

Von Beanie units have slowed down the retreat, and fallen back on Lvl-3 forts in most places that he has obviously been working on for a few turns. This is slowing me down some, but as you saw above, we are still surrounding certain units.

TURN 13 we encircled nearly 20 divisions this way, and captured over 200K Reds. Since that turn, Von Beanie has stopped stacking so much, and his defense is more in-depth and carpeted. Good job on his part.

This turn, we encircled a total of 14 Division, all in small mini-pockets of 3 units or less. No grand encirclements, really all we are doing is biting off as many Reds as we can before the Winter. With one or two exceptions, all those units can't be rescued, and will go down next turn.

Army Group North: In AGNs sector, mostly we are tidying the lines and getting ready for winter.

NOVGOROD has fallen, and I intend to build a line along the Vokhov, with Finns at the top. That should secure this sector.

1 Corps from 18th Army I am sending to AGC, as we need more infantry in front of Moscow. I can afford to shrink 18th Army, as they really just need to hold the 3 hexes around Novgorod for the winter, and provide some support south of Lake Ilmen to 16th Army.

We are pushing into the Valdai Hills, but we have slow-going. We surrounded 3 units this turn west of Rhzev, and I am just about to the defense line I want for the Winter.


Army Group Center: OREL is surrounded this turn, with 3 units trapped inside. I am not doing anything in front of Moscow; Pz Gp 3 is helping the drive around Rhzev. For the most part, though, I am just creeping forward in the Center.

Army Gropu South: Plenty of action here. I anticipate major Soviet attacks in this area, so I want to create as much space as possible. I want to take Kursk and Donbas; not because I think I can hold them in the Winter (I don't think I can), but because they are good speed-bumps in the winter, and changing hands will kill some of the Manpower, damaging Soviet recruiting efforts.

KHARKOV has fallen, and KURSK is isolated, and will fall next turn (1 unit is there). We have surrounded a total of 8 Divisions in various places in AGS. I am posting a screenie of the Donbas area, so this should tell you what's up there.

In the CRIMEA, we blasted the Reds manning the choke points at the top of the peninsula; at that point, Von Beanie retreated to the Kerch area, and to Sevastapol. We are following, but here is the secret; we aint' staying. I'll move right up to the Red lines, and come the first Blizzard turn, we are running back to our choke points. It should take him 3 turns just to walk to the top of the Peninsula, that will buy me time. I am leaving 2 Romanian Corps behind up there to Dig trenches; we should have lots of 3/4 up there by winter.