Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: brian brian

it is fun to run around in Central Africa with some Axis Territorial units, for sure, but without a rail link, Euro-Axis pressure on South Africa can only come by sea, and this makes it more likely to be a Japanese land operation, though an Italian task-force can aid this immensely to cover for the IJN during a Japanese land impulse (Yes, I like Japanese operations in the Indian Ocean). An Italian attack on South Africa was my grand strategic plan in my very first game of World in Flames way back in the 3rd edition. I was handed Italy, and on the first turn I laid down a Transport. My plan never got any farther than that, buried under an avalanche of newbie mistakes.

I noticed that too in the world hex-control map though. This allows out-of-supply Italian units, such as the INF that starts there, to re-organize after moving while oos, as soon as Sudan is conquered, without needing Egypt at all actually. In this game, the Italians already have Kenya it appears......some would say any Italian TERR builds are a waste of BPs; I would disagree in some games, and only for one of them at the most and more so with the 2008 optional rule of allowing choice of TERR being constructed in exchange for an extra turn of build-time.

Back to this game...it is unfortunate that the Allies appear to have lost all ports on the Red Sea....I would fix that.

The CW still controls Aden, which is on both the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea.

Red Prince:

When I was referring to the CW defending Malta (e.g. leaving the garrison behind), I meant Malta. No overland attack possible. [;)]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Red Prince:

When I was referring to the CW defending Malta (e.g. leaving the garrison behind), I meant Malta. No overland attack possible. [;)]

I actually figured that out when I re-read it, but decided not to bother changing my post . . . [:)]

China is not allowed to align any minors so no need to DOW Portugal for just this reason.

ORIGINAL: Orm

China is not allowed to align any minors so no need to DOW Portugal for just this reason.

Thanks! I'd forgotten about that. In that case, I'll leave it to Japan to make the DOW. I'd think surprise against Portugal is less important to Germany than reducing the chances of giving the USA another entry chit at this point.

Is Japan at war with the CW? If not I am not sure Germany can attack Portugal once Japan does.

ORIGINAL: composer99

Is Japan at war with the CW? If not I am not sure Germany can attack Portugal once Japan does.

Japan is only at war with China right now. Why does that prevent Germany from going to war with Portugal?

The CW is an active power, as is France -- the only ones on the Allied side (other than China). So, Portugal has to align with one of them. Once it aligns, Germany is at war with it:

RAC 9.7 Controlling new minors
You now allocate control of minor countries declared war on this step, to a major power on the other side (see 19.2), in order of declaration.

The minor country is at war with everyone its controlling major power is at war with, as well as the major powers that declared war on it.

Whoever takes control of the minor sets up its forces immediately (see 19.4).

I added the underline. Shouldn't this mean Germany can attack a CW-aligned Portugal?

Yes, Germany can attack a CW aligned Portugal, since Portugal is automatic at war with any Major Power the controlling Major power is at war with, in addition to the Major Power which declared war on the minor.

If the USSR is at war with Japan, then Portugal can align to the USSR. If not:
It might be better to surrender Portugal to Japan (by not aligning to the CW). Portugal than becomes Japanese territory, which the Germans can't enter until Japan is at war with the CW (or the USA is both at war with Japan and Germany). Also, Germany has to have an HQ in Portugal to do so, since Japan and Germany don't coöperate (foreign troops commitment). This makes things for the Germans not very pretty...
Now, that leaves another question: is the Portuguese resource in that case available for the Euroaxis? Not in the turn of the Portuguese conquest, since there has to be a trade agreement between Japan and Germany for that, and this doesn't exist in this turn. Next turn: Japan can make a trade agreement with Germany or Japan, so the resource can be used by them (this is how I read the rules...).

It would be nice to see if MWIF is programmed will run it this way...

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Yes, Germany can attack a CW aligned Portugal, since Portugal is automatic at war with any Major Power the controlling Major power is at war with, in addition to the Major Power which declared war on the minor.

If the USSR is at war with Japan, then Portugal can align to the USSR. If not:
It might be better to surrender Portugal to Japan. Portugal than becomes Japanese territory, which the Germans can't enter until Japan is at war with the CW (or the USA is both at war with Japan and Germany). Also, Germany has to have an HQ in Portugal to do so, since Japan and Germany don't coöperate (foreign troops commitment). This makes things for the Germans not very pretty...
Now, that leaves another question: is the Portuguese resource in that case available for the Euroaxis? Not in the turn of the Portuguese conquest, since there has to be a trade agreement between Japan and Germany for that, and this doesn't exist in this turn. Next turn: Japan can make a trade agreement with Germany or Japan, so the resource can be used by them (this is how I read the rules...).

It would be nice to see if MWIF is programmed will run it this way...

Actually, FTC rules don't apply here, since Portugal isn't the home country of Japan. You can enter aligned minors without an HQ (if you are a Major Power).

Aden is on the wrong side of the Red Sea for the purpose I envisaged. It is an important place, well worth a garrison....the Axis can sneak in quick after landing in Yemen.....but won't help you threaten a return to Suez overland, where the CW now has a long way to go. I'd still send the British CAV (ideal unit in African terrain) and C-47 or Harrow to Tanganyika once the horses are all saddled up in a turn or two.

In general, I would get the DOW on Portugal out of the way this turn or next to keep the 30% chance of yet more US Entry hit as low as possible as the average chit values are at their lowest in 1940. Germany needn't worry about reinforcements in Portugal itself; though I would send in a few BPs of cheap delaying units if I was the CW.

The bigger picture is the Portuguese empire....Germany should to be ready to seize the Azores upon DOW. I would probably set up the Portuguese GARR overseas....oh, the gamey horror! Given this is a solitaire exercise I might roll a dice to make that decision.

Japan should do the DOW as you have deduced as the Allies would have little choice but to align it to the CW. I'm not sure the no-alignment-for-China rule, a 2008 errata I believe, is part of the MWiF rule set, though it should be if only in the interest of preventing bizarre bug situations, though OTOH that might help test things like Free French and Vichy French alignments, which generate plenty of rules snafus, particularly with minors who have their own aligned minors.

But Japan has far better targets to consider than East Timor, starting with an easy walk on to Macao but an even more pressuring move on the Allies via a landing in Mozambique, adding yet more protection to the budding Italian empire in Africa. (Hint: the Japanese can make logistic preparations via friendly Italian ports in the Horn of Africa). You could also consider a landing in Goa to pressure the CW some more, though I wouldn't suggest developing a campaign out of that base. This should be a good game for Japan as the Italian navy will be in play in the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean (Seychelles, here I come), threatening normally secure CW troop movements....I might even repair their two older BBs. The Axis do have some big decisions to make on who supplies what....I would eventually build an overseas supply route around the Arabian peninsula and use the Japanese carriers and an Italian squadron to keep the RN and USN away from it while the Germans drive towards Russia from northern Iraqi/Persian railheads. All without forgetting an Axis Prime Directive: Keep the US out of the war as long as possible.

I still find it completely absurd that Macao is it's own hex complete with minor port, while Goa has no port due to the bias of the map editor not wanting the game played that way.

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Yes, Germany can attack a CW aligned Portugal, since Portugal is automatic at war with any Major Power the controlling Major power is at war with, in addition to the Major Power which declared war on the minor.

If the USSR is at war with Japan, then Portugal can align to the USSR. If not:
It might be better to surrender Portugal to Japan. Portugal than becomes Japanese territory, which the Germans can't enter until Japan is at war with the CW (or the USA is both at war with Japan and Germany). Also, Germany has to have an HQ in Portugal to do so, since Japan and Germany don't coöperate (foreign troops commitment). This makes things for the Germans not very pretty...
Now, that leaves another question: is the Portuguese resource in that case available for the Euroaxis? Not in the turn of the Portuguese conquest, since there has to be a trade agreement between Japan and Germany for that, and this doesn't exist in this turn. Next turn: Japan can make a trade agreement with Germany or Japan, so the resource can be used by them (this is how I read the rules...).

It would be nice to see if MWIF is programmed will run it this way...

Actually, FTC rules don't apply here, since Portugal isn't the home country of Japan. You can enter aligned minors without an HQ (if you are a Major Power).

There is no restriction for Germany to enter Portugal if it is surrendered to Japan. Japan is already an active Major Power so Germany can enter at will. CW, however, must wait to enter a surrendered Portugal until they are at war with Japan. This effectively puts the atlantic islands out of reach for a while.

You are right, FTC doesn't apply. However, supply might be a problem, since Lisbon isn't a secondary supply source for German units and Madrid is to far away.

ORIGINAL: Centuur

You are right, FTC doesn't apply. However, supply might be a problem, since Lisbon isn't a secondary supply source for German units and Madrid is to far away.

Since I will hopefully hold Gibraltar, I might be able to get supply there by sea.

If your going Russia first I suggest having both ENG units on board (if playing with) and 2 o-chits. I know your sacrificing land units for an o-chit but frankly you are going to need it to blow up his big stacks.

Here's the End of Turn result, JA41, for my Russian campaign (well the southern front at least). Russia first started MJ41, Super Balbo going (ie lotsa IT Tac AIR, italian air impulses and balbo to reorg) and the use of two o-chits. 3 consecutive impulses of bad weather in MJ41 and a EoT roll of 1 for JA haven't helped.

Thanks for the correction on the rules.

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Also, Lisbon would be a lovely base for a SUB fleet, wouldn't it?

I aligned Portugal as the Axis in a mega DoD game a while back. Lisbon became the base of the Regia Marina while the Azores was the forward base of the German sub fleet and Condor gruppe. If only I'd built a few more subs! The allies managed to invade it just a turn before I was able to complete my planned feat of strat bombing New York from the Azores with one of the late war fantasy german bombers...

ORIGINAL: Jimm

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Also, Lisbon would be a lovely base for a SUB fleet, wouldn't it?

I aligned Portugal as the Axis in a mega DoD game a while back. Lisbon became the base of the Regia Marina while the Azores was the forward base of the German sub fleet and Condor gruppe. If only I'd built a few more subs! The allies managed to invade it just a turn before I was able to complete my planned feat of strat bombing New York from the Azores with one of the late war fantasy german bombers...

If I manage to claim the Azores, I'm gonna have to try that. I've got the optional extra 18 turns, so we'll see if Germany lasts that long [:)]

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Jimm

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

Also, Lisbon would be a lovely base for a SUB fleet, wouldn't it?

I aligned Portugal as the Axis in a mega DoD game a while back. Lisbon became the base of the Regia Marina while the Azores was the forward base of the German sub fleet and Condor gruppe. If only I'd built a few more subs! The allies managed to invade it just a turn before I was able to complete my planned feat of strat bombing New York from the Azores with one of the late war fantasy german bombers...

If I manage to claim the Azores, I'm gonna have to try that. I've got the optional extra 18 turns, so we'll see if Germany lasts that long [:)]

Unfortunately I don't think it quite works on the MWIF map- it's 38 hexes from the westernmost Azores island to New York, the Ju290B gets 17 range extended = 34. I think it worked on the physical map using the blue dots but its not impossible that I miscounted- a lot of red wine did get consumed in those DoD sessions!

ORIGINAL: Jimm

ORIGINAL: Red Prince

ORIGINAL: Jimm




I aligned Portugal as the Axis in a mega DoD game a while back. Lisbon became the base of the Regia Marina while the Azores was the forward base of the German sub fleet and Condor gruppe. If only I'd built a few more subs! The allies managed to invade it just a turn before I was able to complete my planned feat of strat bombing New York from the Azores with one of the late war fantasy german bombers...

If I manage to claim the Azores, I'm gonna have to try that. I've got the optional extra 18 turns, so we'll see if Germany lasts that long [:)]

Unfortunately I don't think it quite works on the MWIF map- it's 38 hexes from the westernmost Azores island to New York, the Ju290B gets 17 range extended = 34. I think it worked on the physical map using the blue dots but its not impossible that I miscounted- a lot of red wine did get consumed in those DoD sessions!

37 hexes from Corvo in the Azores to Boston.

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Jimm

ORIGINAL: Red Prince



If I manage to claim the Azores, I'm gonna have to try that. I've got the optional extra 18 turns, so we'll see if Germany lasts that long [:)]

Unfortunately I don't think it quite works on the MWIF map- it's 38 hexes from the westernmost Azores island to New York, the Ju290B gets 17 range extended = 34. I think it worked on the physical map using the blue dots but its not impossible that I miscounted- a lot of red wine did get consumed in those DoD sessions!

37 hexes from Corvo in the Azores to Boston.

You have to do it the way Germany planned it then. Refuel from a U-boat. [;)]