Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:35 pm**

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
ORIGINAL: n01487477

A fair amount of work went into this doc, so can I have some of you to look at it and think about errors, changes and additions.

Thanks
Damien,

thanks for all your effort! I will take a look at it this week.

Wirra,
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Also looking forward to being back for a cold one and Ribeye at the Story Bridge come Feb.
Cheers

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:45 pm**

Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:57 pm**

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?

Sulu -
I agree with you, paying the toll is a bit hard to swallow.I guess in the end it depends on your strategic situation and how many tankers you've lost.I usually accelerate until normal build and then leave them. Having said that if the enemy were bearing down and I needed to shift as much fuel/oil as possible from the SRA. I'd pay for some of the bigger ones.

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:02 pm**

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?
Sulu -
I agree with you, paying the toll is a bit hard to swallow.I guess in the end it depends on your strategic situation and how many tankers you've lost.I usually accelerate until normal build and then leave them. Having said that if the enemy were bearing down and I needed to shift as much fuel/oil as possible from the SRA. I'd pay for some of the bigger ones.

Since I haven't taken this into account I'll file this one away for later use. Thanks!! [:)]

Posted: **Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:32 pm**

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

ORIGINAL: n01487477

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Hi Damian, again great resource. I feel I have plenty of merchant shipyard points to burn right now I've been accelerating all tankers until they start bulding at the 10 threshold, I'm not a big fan of paying 3x for anything but the DDs with radar but am looking to adjust if there's are options that are better suited. Should I accelerate TKs all the way through?
Sulu -
I agree with you, paying the toll is a bit hard to swallow.I guess in the end it depends on your strategic situation and how many tankers you've lost.I usually accelerate until normal build and then leave them. Having said that if the enemy were bearing down and I needed to shift as much fuel/oil as possible from the SRA. I'd pay for some of the bigger ones.

Since I haven't taken this into account I'll file this one away for later use. Thanks!! [:)]

One other point to consider.
Durability 30 tanker, 300 days to build normal/ 150 accel..
normal build = 9000HI
Accel build = 13500HI

Cargo 11600 Liquid
[*]As fuel = 5800 HI points; so 2 trips basically pays for itself on normal. 3 trips as accelerated.
[*]As Oil = 11600*9 = 104400 fuel (paid in full)
Not to say that you should be hauling Oil ... Fuel is what is needed.

Gets a bit more complex with Accel during the >dur*10 <dur*30 phase (queued)
[*]Accel Queued + Normal build = (dur*((delay-(dur*10))/2) +(dur*(dur*10))
[*]Accel Queued + Accel Build =(dur*((delay-(dur*10))/2)+(dur*3)*((dur*10)/2))

So the maths with a ship that has just become queued (the extreme case)
queued & build time = 900 days; .
1. (30*(900-(30*10))/2) + (30*(30*10)) = 9000 + 9000 = 18000HI (3 trips)
time = 600 days
2. (30*(900-(30*10))/2) + (30*3)*((30*10)/2) = 9000+13500 = 22500HI (4 trips)
time = 450 days

So is it worth it? That's for you to decide...

Posted: **Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:57 pm**

Damian,

I did not know that i can downgrade my R&D factories to speed up repairs. Like A6M5 fac -> A6M3.
This is nice. The .pdf is very helpful file. Many thanks.

Why that many D3A2 ? Want to go along the upgrade path to get the D5Y1 ?
I wondered because you also go for the Judy.
Many of your R&D plants are not used. Do you plan to increase the number of R&D plants for some planes later to speed them up ?

Posted: **Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:22 pm**

ORIGINAL: seille

Damian,

I did not know that i can downgrade my R&D factories to speed up repairs. Like A6M5 fac -> A6M3.
This is nice. The .pdf is very helpful file. Many thanks.

Why that many D3A2 ? Want to go along the upgrade path to get the D5Y1 ?
I wondered because you also go for the Judy.
Many of your R&D plants are not used. Do you plan to increase the number of R&D plants for some planes later to speed them up ?

The plane build is for realistic R&D and I was just looking to get these planes early. Certainly not thinking of producing that many - as all these plants won't be allowed to produce.

My list of build would be more complete than this. I left all those R&D plants for the player to decide what they'd like to do. I don't want to dictate a complete work up on it.

This is very much a start doc, not a complete economic war plan.

Thanks Seille.

Posted: **Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:32 pm**

Mhh, i would personally be very interested in a COMPLETE R&D plan with PDU on and realistic R&D.
Especially what midwar fighters and bombers you would focuss at and how many factories you would use.
And if you would invest in any late war planes like jets or completely ignore them.

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:14 pm**

Damien -

Off for Thanksgiving Break, so buckled down to tweak my Japanese economic planning using your guide as a reference.

The entire guide - draft or not - is very helpful. Here are a few areas that were of particular use to me:

> R&D - after weeks of forum study, your guide and remarks finished the job. For example, while I knew that the next airframe in line (A6M2 > A6M3) could be accelerated, I did not grasp the concept that the A6M3 could be changed to the A6M3a (carrier capable) and thus be skipped entirely. Yes, very basic (but important!) stuff, your chart gave a clear visual of how to do it.

> Resource Convoys: Again, after time spent studying the forums, your explanation of Port Load and Ship Load Capacity (plus all the other listed factors) brought the whole procedure into focus - I now have an solid basis upon which to make an informed choice as to which hulls best match each port.

> What is the formula to determine "Ship Cargo Size (and Cargo / Fuel efficiency"? Yes, I am somewhat "math challenged" <sigh>.

All of what you have written has helped - immensely. Please stick with it - your audience awaits!!

A Math Wannabe, Mac

Posted: **Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:52 pm**

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Damien -

Off for Thanksgiving Break, so buckled down to tweak my Japanese economic planning using your guide as a reference.

The entire guide - draft or not - is very helpful. Here are a few areas that were of particular use to me:

> R&D - after weeks of forum study, your guide and remarks finished the job. For example, while I knew that the next airframe in line (A6M2 > A6M3) could be accelerated, I did not grasp the concept that the A6M3 could be changed to the A6M3a (carrier capable) and thus be skipped entirely. Yes, very basic (but important!) stuff, your chart gave a clear visual of how to do it.

Hi Mac -
Thanks.

Remember though because you are playing Babes Lite(iirc), there might be different upgrades according to the mod designer compared to this work up for Scen1. Best checked before proceeding.

> Resource Convoys: Again, after time spent studying the forums, your explanation of Port Load and Ship Load Capacity (plus all the other listed factors) brought the whole procedure into focus - I now have an solid basis upon which to make an informed choice as to which hulls best match each port.

> What is the formula to determine "Ship Cargo Size (and Cargo / Fuel efficiency"? Yes, I am somewhat "math challenged" <sigh>.

Cargo size is determined by the editor - so no formula (except those converted to -t)

Cargo Eff.
Eff = Speed * cargo * endurance / fuel
(Although I may change this to hexes.)

All of what you have written has helped - immensely. Please stick with it - your audience awaits!!

A Math Wannabe, Mac

I will continue to refine and add to, but not sure what else needs to be fleshed out as a start doc.

Oh & I'm not great at Math either.[;)]

Have a good weekend

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:40 am**

Damien -

Thank You for a quick response. May I trouble you to do a sample "Cargo Efficiency" calculation using the To'su xAKL from your document? I tried using the formula, but am not doing it correctly:

To'su: Speed (8k cruise?) x cargo (170) x endurance (2100) / (divided by) fuel (91) = Cargo efficiency.

It bothers me that I am not grasping what is probably very obvious, I am most grateful for your help.

Note: I am playing the Big Babes v08 C with Andrew Brown's extended map - the "Rabid Babes" TM (add picture of snarling wolf <here>).

Before changing or modifying my Japanese R&D, I did use the awesome Tracker to see who upgraded to what..<grin>. You have taught me well, Damien San...

Mac

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:48 am**

Here is your snarling wolf

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:01 am**

Cpt Sherwood -

That is an absolutely awesome picture - one of the best (and I looked!). It would seem that I am picture / uploading challenged.. <oh well..>

Thank you, Sir!

Mac

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:42 am**

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Damien -

Thank You for a quick response. May I trouble you to do a sample "Cargo Efficiency" calculation using the To'su xAKL from your document? I tried using the formula, but am not doing it correctly:

To'su: Speed (8k cruise?) x cargo (170) x endurance (2100) / (divided by) fuel (91) = Cargo efficiency.

It bothers me that I am not grasping what is probably very obvious, I am most grateful for your help.

...

cargomiles = (((float)theMaxSpeed + (float)theCruiseSpeed)/2) * ((float)GetCargoCapacity()+(float)GetLiquidCapacity()) * (float)theEndurance / (float)theFuel;

Tosu = (((10 + 8) /2) * (170 + 0) * 2100) / 91
=3213000 / 91
=35307
[edited as my calculator(head) was broken!]
Still not sure this is the best formula - but the one for 1.9 for now.

Code: Select all

/* Other formula's
     				((float)GetShipDailyHexMovement_Mission() * (float)GetShipRange_MissionSpd() * 
         			((float)GetCargoCapacity()+(float)GetLiquidCapacity()))/
         			(float)theFuel;
     				
     				((float)GetShipDailyHexMovement_Mission() * (float)GetShipRange_MissionSpd() * 
     				((float)GetCargoCapacity()+(float)GetLiquidCapacity()))/
     				(float)GetShipFuelPerHex();
     				*/

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:51 am**

Last point about this.
Using the best ship for hauling is not just about docking &
load rates, but also speed, capacity and distance to travel.

I'm not saying that all the cargo routings should be measured by this scale, nor that docking rates should always be adhered to (esp with long distance ferrying), but I hope it does help somewhat in making those decisions.

Posted: **Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:04 pm**

Damien -

Thank you for clarifying the formula.

Mac

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:53 am**

More done on explaining PDU and R&D.

Enjoy ...

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:53 am**

More done on explaining PDU and R&D. (Feel like I might be repeating myself somewhat though)

Enjoy ...

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:50 am**

ORIGINAL: n01487477

More done on explaining PDU and R&D. (Feel like I might be repeating myself somewhat though)

Enjoy ...

Thanks - will try and work through it and post any comments

Posted: **Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:45 am**

AIR PROODUCTION

All this assumes Realistic R&D is OFF and PDU is ON. Also I am using BabesLite mod, not sure if this has different upgrade paths but the principle is the same.

Thanks for the new document - from this I'm going to have a go at working out how i think things work - apologies if this is so wrong that its effectively irrelevent. If it is anywhere near correct i also apologise for probably stating what should be blindingly obvious

*****************************************************

PRODUCTION
Lets take the humble A6M2 Zero - using its ID numbers it seems to upgrade as follows:-

This plane starts in production.

603 ==> 604 ==> 614 ==> 616 ==> 619

The only starting production factory is Maebashi producing 56 a month. I'm assuming that what happens in practice is that:-

* on 44/2 the factory upgrades to the Sen Baku (604)and still produces 56. N.B. there doesn't seem to be a R&D factory for the Sen Baku, i assume this doesn't stop the factory from Auto upgrading?

* then on 44/6 the same factory upgrades to the A6M5b (614) and still produces 56. I assume this this auto upgrade could be earlier or later depending on how R&D goes at the Nagoya R&D factory (which is researching 614)

* then on 44/10 the same factory upgrades to the A6M5c (616) and still produces 56. Again, the actual date is subject to change depending on how R&D goes.

If you don't want a factory to auto-upgrade you can set it from 'Upgd' to 'Keep' in the industry/air screen.

R&D
If we then look at the A6M3 (609) it starts in R&D status in Nagoya with the following upgrade path.

609 ==> 610 ==> 612 ==> 614 ==>616 ==> 619

If i do nothing the R&D factories will always remain R&D factories?

As mentioned in the Production section above i assume that as soon as a plane has completed R&D that the production factories can either be switched to this model and those due to auto upgrade do so automatically (or do you have to manually change it?)

How do you know when R&D on a plane has been completed - is there a message in the log? Or is the only way to tell that the R&D factory will be seen to have switched to another model?

Does Tracker update the 'Available Date' to show an earlier date if you allocate extra R&D to get it researched earlier. As mentioned above i assume the production factories then auto upgrade earlier.

If i want to change a R&D factory to actually produce a particular plane i can select this in the industry/air screen BUT then it will need to be fully repaired(?).

*****************************************************

As a more general point how much earlier do you get some of your planes based on the strategy you describe in your document? Also, are there problems getting the right engines for these ealrier than normal builds?

Once again many thanks for all your time in producing a very helpful document.

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