RE: OT: Blame for the Battle of Gettysburg
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:48 pm
As are you for starting many interesting and "community oriented" threads of late, CR. [&o]
What's your Strategy?
https://forums.matrixgames.com:443/
or pound them relentlessly without much regard for casualties (Grant).
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
FDR had his Brain Trust. I'm thinkin' AE Forumites are collectively knowledgeable about nearly anything to do with history (plus, undoubtedly, lots of other stuff to boot, though I'm not sure Chickenboy's knowledge of every exotic vacation locale in the world counts....). In recent months you guys have helped me identify photos taken at various locations in England during World War II and helped me get my mind wrapped around Early's performance at Gettysburg. This was not an advertised benefit of purchasing AE, but I appreciate it nonetheless. A tip of the cap to the Forum. You guys are great.
Darn, gotta hand it to the cavalry!! But then there was Jenkins that was actually supporting Ewell, and then there was Robertson and Grumble Jones. A really good book out about that, recently. Superlative reviews from people like Col. C.C. Kingsleed (USMA, West Point), G.C. Bradley (USAMHI, Carlisle); all of whom seem to wear (or used to wear) crossed sabres on their collars. Guys who wrote the book were over 12 years old, been in the field for years and have the respect of the community. Think you might just like it. I'll send you a pm. You might find some names in the dedication section that just might sound a bit familiar [;)]ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
But J.E.B. did leave Imboden's brigade of cavalry behind.
. . . oh, wait. You said well led. [:)]
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
or pound them relentlessly without much regard for casualties (Grant).
Catton and a couple of others have shown that was not Grant's strategy at all. His casualty rate per engagement was in most cases lower than the casualties that US and rebel armies suffered under the command of other general officers. About 2:1 overall which was, considering the time period, very good.
Grant's strategy was rather more one of remaining constantly engaged. So there were fewer "one big battle" events and more a constant stream of casualties. It robbed the Army of Northern Virginia of the only thing its commanders could use to good effect -- strategic initiative. Once Lee was pinned down by the Army of the Potomoc, the rest of the US armies were free to run wild.
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
... But as to calling it a matter of blame... ultimately, Lee chose to make the fight on that ground against well prepared US forces on Day 2 and Day 3. I'd say that the blame lies with him. Day 3 was especially ill advised.
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
All this expression of Southerly love is making me uncomfortable...
Just for those comments, Canoerebel, I'm not bringing you back any kumis the next time I go to Kazakhstan! [:'(]
ETA: I am going to San Diego this summer for a convention. We're having a party on the deck of the Midway at harbor there. No pictures for you! [:'(]
ORIGINAL: vettim89
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
All this expression of Southerly love is making me uncomfortable...
Just for those comments, Canoerebel, I'm not bringing you back any kumis the next time I go to Kazakhstan! [:'(]
ETA: I am going to San Diego this summer for a convention. We're having a party on the deck of the Midway at harbor there. No pictures for you! [:'(]
To go OT on an OT: hey, Poultry lad, this convention you make reference to, is it AVMA? I was planning on going this year. We should meet up for drinks
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Lee was not a perfect man, but he is probably one of the truly great men that America has produced. He merits the accolades he receives.
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
or pound them relentlessly without much regard for casualties (Grant).
Catton and a couple of others have shown that was not Grant's strategy at all. His casualty rate per engagement was in most cases lower than the casualties that US and rebel armies suffered under the command of other general officers. About 2:1 overall which was, considering the time period, very good.
Grant's strategy was rather more one of remaining constantly engaged. So there were fewer "one big battle" events and more a constant stream of casualties. It robbed the Army of Northern Virginia of the only thing its commanders could use to good effect -- strategic initiative. Once Lee was pinned down by the Army of the Potomoc, the rest of the US armies were free to run wild.
ORIGINAL: Alfred
You won't get too many southerners admitting this but the simple fact is that no Confederate general, and this most definitely includes Lee, had any idea how to win the war for the south.
ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
All this expression of Southerly love is making me uncomfortable...
Just for those comments, Canoerebel, I'm not bringing you back any kumis the next time I go to Kazakhstan! [:'(]
ETA: I am going to San Diego this summer for a convention. We're having a party on the deck of the Midway at harbor there. No pictures for you! [:'(]
I do agree with ilovestrategy. I think almost all Southrons would admit that, pal (except the Texicans, of course [8D]). The parallels between the War of Northern Aggression and the Pacific War are many and varied, and the US Civil War often comes up in the context of strategic analysis of the Pacific conflict. Because ilovestrategy is a righteous dude and seems to love strategy, this is dedicated to him.ORIGINAL: Alfred
You won't get too many southerners admitting this but the simple fact is that no Confederate general, and this most definitely includes Lee, had any idea how to win the war for the south.
ORIGINAL: JWE
... Btw, Scott’s Anaconda plan, which was what got eventuated, bears a remarkable similarity to Nimitz’ operational concepts in the Central Pacific (ok, and MacArthur’s in SWPac). Just conceptually internalize Guadalcanal as Donelson; then Shiloh and Vicksburg as the Gilberts and Marshalls. Sherman’s strike through the heartland might, perhaps, evoke New Guinea/Philippines, while the Marianas/Okinawa suggest the final campaign to the Petersburg line and ‘the end’.
ORIGINAL: Joe D.
I thought the Pacific war was more a "high road, low road" approach with Nimitz taking the more direct route, giving MacArthur more men and amphibious photo ops.
Then, somewhere along the way someone realized we could bypass and isolate enemy-held islands.
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Joe D.
I thought the Pacific war was more a "high road, low road" approach with Nimitz taking the more direct route, giving MacArthur more men and amphibious photo ops.
Then, somewhere along the way someone realized we could bypass and isolate enemy-held islands.
More like "My road: no, MY road!" When the JCS couldn't decide in favor of either King of MacArthur they let them both proceed.
Both Mac and Nimitz and the staffs under them originally envisioned a slow advance base by base. The most famous being Mac's plan to take back Rabaul. Depending on which Bio you read, it was either Mac or one of his intel subordinates (Fellers) who came up with the bypassing idea. Halsey learned the benefits of this after the near disaster at the start of Cartwheel.
Like the "North" vs. "South" however....the US ultimately had the resource muscle to pull off a two pronged major offensive which served to help split and distract Japanese defensive efforts