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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:08 pm
by Mundy
I agree there. There's also the urge to start a Stalin-style purge in China, which has turned a few battles for me.
Ed-
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:29 pm
by vettim89
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I wonder how much of a role my unintentional misdirection with Force Z played?
Well, you know what they say, "Even a blind nut finds a squirrel now and again [:D]
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:19 am
by zuluhour
Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields.
I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:12 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: zuluhour
Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields.
I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater.
Japan has lots of recon units. Significant aircraft and their range in hexes: Mavis - 25; Dinah - 14; Babs - 13. All bombers and float planes can also do recon.
Kunming has some decent industry and is really THE key to the Burma road, in my opinion. No need to take on Burma if you have Kunming and LOC to the southeast. This also isolates Chungking nicely.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:06 am
by obvert
ORIGINAL: zuluhour
Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields.
I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater.
There are a zillion IJAAF recon planes right from the beginning. And you can split the groups from 12 to 3x4 so you can get even more coverage.
No reason to send pilots with 70 exp in 5-6 categories on an unreconned, unescorted mission anywhere.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:39 am
by Encircled
As a newbie, learnt a shedload from your AAR's, so will read this one with interest!
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:23 am
by Miller
You may know this already Dan, but a good tip for Chinese ground units is not to change their prep target. Once they get to 100 prep you can set them to train and their exp should rise up to 55 and morale up to 99. Much better than the 35/35 they start with! I know you are very adept at building defensive lines in China but a very determined Jap player can prevail if he brings enough troops. You dont have the supply to survive long term, unless you can keep the Burma road open. In my game I managed to capture Chungking in August 43.......and I consider land war the weakest part of my game.........
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:06 am
by JocMeister
I agree with Miller on China. I certainly feel that against a reasonable good player China can simply not be held as the game is right now. I hope you can prove me wrong though!
Supply is certainly your main enemy. Unfortunantly that is the one thing you can´t really do much about. If I were you I would start planning and preparing right now for what would happen if you lost China. Since the garrision requirements are pretty laughable for the Japs in China he can certainly move out a lot of units to other location once he is done there.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:32 am
by obvert
As I've never played the Allies in a PBEM I don't know how well this can work against a person, but against the AI I just shove TF after TF full of supply into Rangoon. I think I might have offloaded 250,000-300,000 supply in the first few months the last time. And eventually I was able to get it to shift north to the mountains and then through.
I did lose a good amount of shipping, but it was worth it to get supply in to stave off the first 6 months of Japanese aggression.
What is you method and stance on getting supply to China early in the war, CR?
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:23 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
12/9/41
The Ethics in Chasing Lex and Ent: No question now that Steve was intentionally trying for an intercept. I personally don't think that's kosher. I would never do it as an IJ player. This tells me Steve is aggressive and "no hold's barred." I'm watching Mersing to see if he tries something similarly edgy there. (Had I known Steve thought giving chase to the American CVs was acceptable, I would have emptied out Pearl Harbor on the 7th. I daresay he wouldn't have like that.)
It is really why I insist on playing the historic first turn. Just too many arguments and perceptions about what is OK and not on turn one.
I admit that when playing the historic turn, you are pretty much conceding the loss of one or both of the British BBs but in my experience that really does not matter much.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:25 pm
by crsutton
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: zuluhour
Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields.
I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater.
Japan has lots of recon units. Significant aircraft and their range in hexes: Mavis - 25; Dinah - 14; Babs - 13. All bombers and float planes can also do recon.
Kunming has some decent industry and is really THE key to the Burma road, in my opinion. No need to take on Burma if you have Kunming and LOC to the southeast. This also isolates Chungking nicely.
But not camera equipped and that makes a big difference in detection and detection levels. I don't consider it such a bonus. Recon is tough on the Allies at start but that is made up in spades later on.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:54 pm
by JeffroK
ORIGINAL: Miller
You may know this already Dan, but a good tip for Chinese ground units is not to change their prep target. Once they get to 100 prep you can set them to train and their exp should rise up to 55 and morale up to 99. Much better than the 35/35 they start with! I know you are very adept at building defensive lines in China but a very determined Jap player can prevail if he brings enough troops. You dont have the supply to survive long term, unless you can keep the Burma road open. In my game I managed to capture Chungking in August 43.......and I consider land war the weakest part of my game.........
But this depends on giving the IJA a breathing space where they can concentrate enough force in China.
Making the JFB's fight in Malaya, PI, Burma, New Guinea, DEI, Aleutians etc makes them think about where there LCU are directed.
As seen in the other CR game hiccups in early operations can put a spanner in the plans of the JFB's.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:55 pm
by JeffroK
ORIGINAL: crsutton
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
12/9/41
The Ethics in Chasing Lex and Ent: No question now that Steve was intentionally trying for an intercept. I personally don't think that's kosher. I would never do it as an IJ player. This tells me Steve is aggressive and "no hold's barred." I'm watching Mersing to see if he tries something similarly edgy there. (Had I known Steve thought giving chase to the American CVs was acceptable, I would have emptied out Pearl Harbor on the 7th. I daresay he wouldn't have like that.)
ditto,
at least 7/12/41 should be historical.
It is really why I insist on playing the historic first turn. Just too many arguments and perceptions about what is OK and not on turn one.
I admit that when playing the historic turn, you are pretty much conceding the loss of one or both of the British BBs but in my experience that really does not matter much.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:01 pm
by Historiker
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Ethics in Chasing Lex and Ent: No question now that Steve was intentionally trying for an intercept. I personally don't think that's kosher. I would never do it as an IJ player. This tells me Steve is aggressive and "no hold's barred." I'm watching Mersing to see if he tries something similarly edgy there. (Had I known Steve thought giving chase to the American CVs was acceptable, I would have emptied out Pearl Harbor on the 7th. I daresay he wouldn't have like that.)
He didn't go for them on turn one, did he? How long should he spare the US CVs?
Didn't you already use them offensivly targeting his oilers?
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:15 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Historiker
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
The Ethics in Chasing Lex and Ent: No question now that Steve was intentionally trying for an intercept. I personally don't think that's kosher. I would never do it as an IJ player. This tells me Steve is aggressive and "no hold's barred." I'm watching Mersing to see if he tries something similarly edgy there. (Had I known Steve thought giving chase to the American CVs was acceptable, I would have emptied out Pearl Harbor on the 7th. I daresay he wouldn't have like that.)
He didn't go for them on turn one, did he? How long should he spare the US CVs?
Didn't you already use them offensivly targeting his oilers?
I still haven't seen any confirmation of the make-up or the CV group that attacked Enterprise way out past Johnston Island, but CanoeRebel's statements imply he thinks KB was split on turn one into 4 CVs to attack PH and two to hunt for allied CVs. That would be a bit gamey, but so is AO hunting on turn 1. Not sure if CR waited until turn 2 to start hunting.
The thing that confuses the ID of the IJN TF is that only 10 Kates and 10 Zeros attacked Enterprise. This corresponds to CVL Ryujo's air complement with a strike one hex too far for Vals to join in. Waiting for further developments ....
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:19 am
by Justus2
The targeting of the AOs was in a different AAR than this game, and IIRC it wasnt until they were spotted by nav search.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:33 am
by Keifer
No ethical violation IMO. I'm reading both sides of the AAR. He had a sighting (included screenshot) near Johnston on Dec 8 and reacted to it.
FYI - This is the only type of sharing I will do between AAR's. Just wanted you to know he seems to be playing a gentleman's game. Since you've escaped, I figured there is no harm.
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:32 am
by Cribtop
FYI, I agree with Keifer. I'm reading both too, but think this is worth breaking radio silence for. PH had a TF sighting with "CV" in it, and thus was reacting to "in game" information rather than hindsight. Nagumo may have done the same given this info.
Edit: OK, Yamamoto may have ordered Nagumo to do something given this info, but you get the picture. [:D]
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:10 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Cribtop
FYI, I agree with Keifer. I'm reading both too, but think this is worth breaking radio silence for. PH had a TF sighting with "CV" in it, and thus was reacting to "in game" information rather than hindsight. Nagumo may have done the same given this info.
Edit: OK, Yamamoto may have ordered Nagumo to do something given this info, but you get the picture. [:D]
[:D]
But we really should be less harsh on Nagumo - like Jellicoe at Jutland, he was the only man on either side who could lose the war in an afternoon. Jellicoe didn't, Nagumo did!
RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:35 am
by Cribtop
True in many respects - caution with the one shot weapon that is the IJN CVs is well advised. Still, silly to put a non-aviator in command of KB just because it was his turn on the seniority ladder.