RE: Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:41 pm
PC Taney also has 5inch guns if i remeber correctly... One of those PC/PG that are more like a battleship than an escort ship
What's your Strategy?
https://forums.matrixgames.com:443/
ORIGINAL: Gridley380
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but IIRC Taney is one of the few truly long-range escorts you have available in the early game. IMO she should be earmarked for convoy duty between the US West Coast and Oz, not making suicide recon runs. PT Boats are good for the latter.
ORIGINAL: Gridley380
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but IIRC Taney is one of the few truly long-range escorts you have available in the early game. IMO she should be earmarked for convoy duty between the US West Coast and Oz, not making suicide recon runs. PT Boats are good for the latter.
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
PC Taney also has 5inch guns if i remeber correctly... One of those PC/PG that are more like a battleship than an escort ship
Sounds to me liike you refer to Dutch PG Soerabaya, an old battleship with 4 x 11" [280 mm] guns. Definitely she is no longer worthy of being called a BB, but caller it a PG is a bit of a stretch. Should be a category for coastal monitors [big guns, shallow draft] in this game [for a RL example look up the British monitor Abercrombie].ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
PC Taney also has 5inch guns if i remeber correctly... One of those PC/PG that are more like a battleship than an escort ship
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Gridley380
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but IIRC Taney is one of the few truly long-range escorts you have available in the early game. IMO she should be earmarked for convoy duty between the US West Coast and Oz, not making suicide recon runs. PT Boats are good for the latter.
Addendum: I'm not planning on doing convoys between the WC and Oz unless I'm forced to by loss of western Australia. My thoughts on this are found in multiple places in the archives. I believe in using off-map to the max.
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Sounds to me liike you refer to Dutch PG Soerabaya, an old battleship with 4 x 11" [280 mm] guns. Definitely she is no longer worthy of being called a BB, but caller it a PG is a bit of a stretch. Should be a category for coastal monitors [big guns, shallow draft] in this game [for a RL example look up the British monitor Abercrombie].ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
PC Taney also has 5inch guns if i remeber correctly... One of those PC/PG that are more like a battleship than an escort ship
ORIGINAL: Gridley380
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: Gridley380
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but IIRC Taney is one of the few truly long-range escorts you have available in the early game. IMO she should be earmarked for convoy duty between the US West Coast and Oz, not making suicide recon runs. PT Boats are good for the latter.
Addendum: I'm not planning on doing convoys between the WC and Oz unless I'm forced to by loss of western Australia. My thoughts on this are found in multiple places in the archives. I believe in using off-map to the max.
I've tried that - inevitably my Cape Town -> Perth convoys encounter SS, AMC, or some 3rd rate IJN flat top halfway between Perth and the off map exit and get mauled. The Brits are even thinner on ASW platforms with long legs than the USN.
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Mike is traveling this week, so we won't get any turns in until Friday or the weekend. I'm using the time to really look at China. Have four possible macro strategies, each with different pros and cons, each with different levels of skill required to pull off.
Mulling.
For those interested I call them:
1) MLR
2) Atomization
3) Evacuation
3a) Evacuation and activation
Rocky has top-lined comments, but I've asked him not to get into the weeds on numbers or such; I need to learn to do this on my own. His initial comments tell me I need to dig more into base forces and their devices, and to look more at HQ structures in China. But I have an initial idea of what I'm going to do in the first three months and I can get LCUs moving on this turn toward that end. After only three days I don't know what Mike has planned for China, but I'm going to do what's right for me and this game's skeleton of no HRs. If he sits back there's nothing that can't be modified next spring.
ORIGINAL: obvert
Interesting idea.
It sounds like you're planning to take most of the Chinese units out to build in India. If you attempted to keep only the Central area and the mountains for as long as possible I would think this strategy would be very strong. If you used the rough/woods hexes around these areas to hold them, plus the supply generated by the major centers to keep a small air force at least popping in and out, you could possibly keep those areas with half of the Chinese forces, the better more filled out Corps, while sending the rest to India to build up.
You may already be committed to complete evac but I thought I'd throw this out there. The one tough thing about trying to get back into China later is if he controls the mountains. Not only is this tough territory to conquer, but he'll have increased supply flow to Burma from this area and a few routes to use inside lines during any invasion through Burma.
If he wants to build the conquered bases in China this won't really strain the Japanese engineer availability at all. Most garrisons will be made of brigades which have built in engineers plus there are a few base forces and engineer units already in China. Quite a few more could be brought over temporarily from manchuria before getting to the Pacific if he's looking to build toward a VP goal in 42. He can send a few hundred engineers to a base and max it out in a month, then move on, or just build slowly with one of the small companies of 16 engineers in each base. Plus the added resources, HI/LI and fuel/oil will help the economy right away.
If you go through with this it will make for a tense and interesting game. He will have to make tough decisions about how to take advantage of the move while protecting against it's inevitable outcome in a very strong Chinese army in 43-44. Also something to think about is how many Chinese squads you get to fill out those units. Here is little breakdown:
Chinese Rifle Squads- 350/month = 4200/year
Chinese Cavalry Squads-40/month = 480/year
Chinese engineer squads - 3/month = 36/year
MMG section - 8/month = 96/year
So even moving to India you can't get more than almost 4300 new squads added in during a year of good supply. Sorry if this is all really obvious and you've thought through it all already. Just a new idea for me so I had to break it down.
If your crappy small fragments get destroyed you'll actually gain raw AV when they return at 1/3 strength in the Central area. This might mean that any unit now under 1/3 TOE might be better off shocking across a river trying to obliterate itself so it can gain TOE by being re-spawned in Chungking before you evacuate.
ORIGINAL: obvert
Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this develops. It's certainly taking the 'problem' most Allied players have been talking about recently and turning it on its head.
ORIGINAL: zuluhour
I know I'm going to be real curious how this turns out. Moose, I really enjoy the Chinese aspect of the game. I don't think the terrain is quite laid out right, but it is alot of "crooked space". Has anyone ever completed a major exodus of Chinese formations and been able to take back any part of China? or is that even a goal? Just one last thing, what if China is not a major goal for Japan and you gift wrap it? I wish you the best in the endeavor and would like to see a map around mid January of the front line trace.
...in the audience
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: obvert
Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this develops. It's certainly taking the 'problem' most Allied players have been talking about recently and turning it on its head.
Hey, theory I can do. It's execution that gets me in trouble. [:)]
I don't think China is possible to hold in 1942 if the Japanese focus on Sian and points north right away. There just isn't enough supply, and there's nothing Ledo can about it with one transport unit. I've seen this Sian thing come up more and more over the past year as JFBs read the minutes of the club meetings and stop focusing so much on the magic highway along the coast.
ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: obvert
Anyway, looking forward to seeing how this develops. It's certainly taking the 'problem' most Allied players have been talking about recently and turning it on its head.
Hey, theory I can do. It's execution that gets me in trouble. [:)]
I don't think China is possible to hold in 1942 if the Japanese focus on Sian and points north right away. There just isn't enough supply, and there's nothing Ledo can about it with one transport unit. I've seen this Sian thing come up more and more over the past year as JFBs read the minutes of the club meetings and stop focusing so much on the magic highway along the coast.
I think that the key for an evacuation plan of china is to hold Burma as long as possible. If i was him and i saw your forces. Fleeing from China to India i'll rush in order to close them the retreat path, conquering Mitikina asap and possibly the Assam. So i think you jeed to risk to defend very forward in southeastern India and in Burma, so risking to be taken out of position in case he tries an early invasion of India in march 42.
Also, based on Obvert's observations about the replacements rate, i think you should try to evacuate only those an amount of corps that can be succesfully rebuilt by 1944, and leavethe rest of china army to fight and gain time for those units u decide to save.
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Burma is really hard to hold on to early on. The only formation of any significance is the 1st Burma div and its not that good. If you invest too much of the Indian forces in Burma he can easily just bypass you and wait for his forces from China/Manchuria to clean it up during 42. I think investing in Burma early on is a dangerous gamble. Unless you use chinese forces for that... [:)]