Matrix Games Forums

Your option is provide the feedback that you have about what you are willing to pay. If they see that enough, they will adjust the pricing.

Now if a bunch of people are buying at the current price, then they won't adjust, but if that is happening then no worries about the wargaming industry being damage and all that jazz.

ORIGINAL: rogo727

It's not just their marketing department. While it is true in college I have taken several marketing classes in the UK I am wondering if the teach just the opposite of what I've learned. From what I can tell they have NO customer service skills at all in fact they have no customer service director other than Erik and mr I or mr P and it really shows. For example the Easter egg sale. Need I say more? Because I can. If they had ANYONE. With retail expericence at the re-launch of this three and and half year old game he or she would have said "hey guys wait a minute". For example the head of the American side admitted that no they did not realize that this game was being sold for under two bucks in the states should tell you that I'm right about this. While they say they know what they are doing it makes you wonder at times.

I agree on all accounts. Someone over there in Epsom, Surrey needs to wake up and smell the coffee. What the hell are they thinking?

I guess the real question is: Who really is the puppet master over there?

Another thing that is weird about this company is that all the people that we've gotten to know and that we receive feedback from are almost only always developers. Where is the marketing guy at? The guy who puts the price tags on everything and packages everything.
What, is he an introvert or something? Shouldn't he be out mingling with everyone? Or, is this marketing guy just another "yes man"? Do they even have a "marketing guy"? Makes me wonder...

Just my thoughts.

And this is the real tragedy ...

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

The price isn't going to change. No amount of complaining is going to change that.


What is far more important is:

Will I be able to get the DLC if I want them, being that I bought this when it came out?

What is the best way to play Russia?

And it's obvious that Matrix knows what it's doing. They're still here, unlike, say, SSI/Microprose.

ORIGINAL: rogo727

The "fuss" is all about this. Before matrix purchased the rights to this game you could legally buy it for under five bucks or less. They said the reason for the 24.99 price tag is to support this game ( in which as of today they admit maybe in the future they will do so that is if they have the time). And while yes I'm sure every company wants to get a "paycheck" every week if your games don't produce enough sales to keep you going well that's your own tough luck. Let me put it this way. Company "a" has a game, it's about average really nothing outstanding by any means. The CEO of company "a" says hey lets sell this to other sites and let them determine the price. Three and half years latter company "a". Sells the game rights to company "s". Company "s" wants to make as much money off this game to support the guys at company "a" so they can make their new game for company "s". Problem is you see that company "a" has been selling this average game at a super low cost to everyone in the world. Company "s" says you should pay the high price for a game that is almost four years old this summer because company "a" needs the money to produce the new game in which company "s". Will demand a 40-50 price for. As a consumer I feel offended by this.

I feel more than offended by this marketing scheme, its a bait and switch working on sentiments of the old grognards. It really is. Company "s" is trying to make a buck on peoples emotions and I'm not falling for it.

I say we boycott...

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

1. We set the price for release on Matrix and Slitherine based on the same price AGEOD had been charging through their online store. We matched their price, we did not exceed it. That's the part of the price-matching which I was referring to earlier. Per our pricing, if this were a new release this would be more like a $40 or $50 game, but we matched the existing price for the AGEOD store.

2. The strategy that Paradox was pursuing with the AGEOD titles was indeed getting them out to many, many distributors and they were being sold at much lower prices in many of those places. We completely understand why this looks like a positive thing from the customer's perspective. The problem is, this was actually hurting AGEOD - the result of all that activity and low prices meant that they were not making enough revenue. Our goal is to allow AGEOD to thrive and develop games for a long time to come. Those revenues are not now going to us or to AGEOD in all cases - we're still finding out about some of the places where the games were previously sent and working out what to do. We will honor and support all sales through any distributor, but if your interest is in supporting us or AGEOD please realize that purchasing from the AGEOD, Matrix or Slitherine stores is the best way to support future development.

3. The main reason for our pricing is to make sure that the developers within this niche, who make the kinds of games we all like to play, remain active and financially viable. It is our job as a publisher (and a developer as well) to make money for them and for us, which leads to the virtuous cycle where those games we all enjoy continue to get made. We have a lot of data, including data from AGEOD, that supports this pricing strategy as the best one for the health of this niche.

4. At $24.99 Pride of Nations is still very good value for the gaming dollar.

Regards,

- Erik

Ok last word on this because clearly no one is listening.

1. Thats false. Price at Ageod was £15.99 yesterday. Now its £17.99. Next week I assume it will be £21.59 to match Matrix?

2 and 3. I have no problems with this view. I actually support it.

4. Yes it is.... if you are paying in Dollars. You won't let me pay in Dollars? Instead I must use an exchange rate which bears no reality with whats happening in the real world.

The bottom line is a game which was made and distributed in Europe at reasonable prices has now been hijacked and UK buyers must pay inflated prices.
I really dread to see what price AACW 2 will be! I'm pretty sure that Ageod would have priced it in the £19.99 range......we can kiss that goodbye now.

+1

I don't object to Matrix's pricing decision, Eric and the Matrix team are running a business and if they sell there product at as loss or an unsustainable level of profit in the future they will not be around and I'll have no new games to buy from them. I do strongly object (if that isn't already apparent) to paying roughly 30% more because I'm buying in Sterling.

$24.99 may be a reasonable price for PoN but I can't buy it for that.

ORIGINAL: rogo727

And this is the real tragedy ...

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

The price isn't going to change. No amount of complaining is going to change that.


What is far more important is:

Will I be able to get the DLC if I want them, being that I bought this when it came out?

What is the best way to play Russia?

And it's obvious that Matrix knows what it's doing. They're still here, unlike, say, SSI/Microprose.

No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

This is classic. He doesn't own the game and never played it but he is saying yep it's worth the price they are asking.

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The game is clearly worth more then a one time sale price. I do not see the problem. 25 dollars is a fair price for this game. Those complaining, especially those that already own the game, can just ignore the price offered by matrix. You don't want to pay, don't buy.

I haven't bought this yet because I don't like AGEODs system of how games work. I have several of their games and none of them are intuitive or easy to work. That may change as the period interests me.

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is classic. He doesn't own the game and never played it but he is saying yep it's worth the price they are asking.

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The game is clearly worth more then a one time sale price. I do not see the problem. 25 dollars is a fair price for this game. Those complaining, especially those that already own the game, can just ignore the price offered by matrix. You don't want to pay, don't buy.

I haven't bought this yet because I don't like AGEODs system of how games work. I have several of their games and none of them are intuitive or easy to work. That may change as the period interests me.

That is pretty funny. I've never seen someone boldy make such a statement about how good a game is, just to wrap up the comment with the fact that they've never played it. [:D]

Seems like there is a lively discussion about this topic over at Grogheads too. We're not the only ones upset about this it seems.

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: rogo727

And this is the real tragedy ...

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

The price isn't going to change. No amount of complaining is going to change that.


What is far more important is:

Will I be able to get the DLC if I want them, being that I bought this when it came out?

What is the best way to play Russia?

And it's obvious that Matrix knows what it's doing. They're still here, unlike, say, SSI/Microprose.

No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

Agreed.

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: rogo727

And this is the real tragedy ...

No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

These arguments are fantastic. Demands to have the marketing director show up to justify the pricing of a game? Anger over the Easter Egg sales gimmick? (sorry , I mean Holiday Egg)
I mean really, if you had taken at least 2 marketing classes you should know that Matrix Slitherine are a failing company and thank heavens the goodwill of 4-5 "fans" are just trying to help save them.

Yup....

I'm buying the game from Slitherine this weekend, hmm maybe I'll buy two just to hinder this socialist boycott in the works.
Dont worry , I can afford, I work for a living and dont expect freebies. And I see the irony that the taxes I pay off the income I earn will somehow trickle down and benefit those who feel "entitled to everything"

Cause this is what is shakes down to right , entitlements ?

Sorry you didnt find your "Easter Eggs" guys, but that shouldnt be everyone elses problem. Go save a whale or something.

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Agreed.

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

ORIGINAL: Aurelian




No tragedy on my end. I also thought that WiTE was too high in price. I bought it anyway. The only tragedy would be if I didn't buy it at all, as I would miss out on the best game of that conflict I ever played.

Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

Then perhaps he should just say so. The reason for the existence of this thread is to do nothing more than complain. If they didn't know what they are doing, they wouldn't be here now would they.

You don't like the price, you simply don't buy it. They are not about to change simply because of an old, tired, argument.

You have *no* idea what the market data they have is. You have no idea what the demand is. Outside of your own, you have no idea what consumer opinion is.

Here's mine. The game is worth what they ask for it. It's worth more than some games I bought in the past (Braveheart for one.) It's worth more than some games I was given as presents.

I'm not asking for anything free mr. Gray. So what you are saying in general is that I don't work for a living? I really hate it when people make ignorant comments about people they don't know.
Yup...... So now I'm a socialist.
The Easter egg concept was a good idea in principle but poorly executed.
So please stick to the main topic or leave. Or is this just another "tongue to cheek statement "

ORIGINAL: The Gray Mouser

These arguments are fantastic. Demands to have the marketing director show up to justify the pricing of a game? Anger over the Easter Egg sales gimmick? (sorry , I mean Holiday Egg)
I mean really, if you had taken at least 2 marketing classes you should know that Matrix Slitherine are a failing company and thank heavens the goodwill of 4-5 "fans" are just trying to help save them.

Yup....

I'm buying the game from Slitherine this weekend, hmm maybe I'll buy two just to hinder this socialist boycott in the works.
Dont worry , I can afford, I work for a living and dont expect freebies. And I see the irony that the taxes I pay off the income I earn will somehow trickle down and benefit those who feel "entitled to everything"

Cause this is what is shakes down to right , entitlements ?

Sorry you didnt find your "Easter Eggs" guys, but that shouldnt be everyone elses problem. Go save a whale or something.

Agreed.

Gray. Take your anti socialist rhetoric and political arguments elsewhere.

ORIGINAL: rogo727

I'm not asking for anything free mr. Gray. So what you are saying in general is that I don't work for a living? I really hate it when people make ignorant comments about people they don't know.
Yup...... So now I'm a socialist.
The Easter egg concept was a good idea in principle but poorly executed.
So please stick to the main topic or leave. Or is this just another "tongue to cheek statement "

ORIGINAL: The Gray Mouser

These arguments are fantastic. Demands to have the marketing director show up to justify the pricing of a game? Anger over the Easter Egg sales gimmick? (sorry , I mean Holiday Egg)
I mean really, if you had taken at least 2 marketing classes you should know that Matrix Slitherine are a failing company and thank heavens the goodwill of 4-5 "fans" are just trying to help save them.

Yup....

I'm buying the game from Slitherine this weekend, hmm maybe I'll buy two just to hinder this socialist boycott in the works.
Dont worry , I can afford, I work for a living and dont expect freebies. And I see the irony that the taxes I pay off the income I earn will somehow trickle down and benefit those who feel "entitled to everything"

Cause this is what is shakes down to right , entitlements ?

Sorry you didnt find your "Easter Eggs" guys, but that shouldnt be everyone elses problem. Go save a whale or something.

Wow, a $5 difference between when I bought it and now....... Not much at all.

Kinda like GMT's pledge program where you get a discount if you pledge before printing.

As consumers, don't we have a right to complain? It is with all successful companies I can think of.

Or are you hinting at the notion that you and/or Slitherine would like to censor our opinions about the price of their products?

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: rogo727

Agreed.

ORIGINAL: italiamedio




Hi Aurelian,

Perhaps you didn't see the point. I believe rogo727 was trying to say that Matrix and Slitherine don't adjust prices according to market data, consumer opinions or demand. Thus the reason for the existence of this thread.

THAT seems to be the real fundamental tragedy here.

Then perhaps he should just say so. The reason for the existence of this thread is to do nothing more than complain. If they didn't know what they are doing, they wouldn't be here now would they.

You don't like the price, you simply don't buy it. They are not about to change simply because of an old, tired, argument.

You have *no* idea what the market data they have is. You have no idea what the demand is. Outside of your own, you have no idea what consumer opinion is.

Here's mine. The game is worth what they ask for it. It's worth more than some games I bought in the past (Braveheart for one.) It's worth more than some games I was given as presents.

One final word and I will leave the thread for good. As a paying consumer as someone who has worked retail their whole life I find your customer service skills severely lacking. For gods sake hire someone who works well with the public, trust me you will thank me and your wallet in years to come. While you seem to have plenty of "yes" men here they will not help you grow as a company. The way you have treated me has left a bitter taste in my mouth. Let me again state I am not asking for anything free here. I just wanted you to be honest with us in which I feel your not for what ever reason. I have always supported you long before I joined the forums. The events in the last month have really shaken my trust and belief in you. Take from this what you want or take nothing at all.

I don't know that there's anything else I could say about pricing that hasn't been said, but I'll give it one more try.

Every bit of data we have tells us that the previous pricing policy was _not_ helping AGEOD and that the new one will. The new pricing policy consists of simply matching the AGEOD store price rather than the special lower prices offered by other distributors. We are not intent on removing the games from all distributors, but we are intent on making sure AGEOD gets a fair price for each game sold. I absolutely agree that we should have known all the places where the game was being sold and what price it was being sold for. Unfortunately, we did not - when AGEOD left Paradox and joined us, some of that information was simply unknown or not available. The main thing that a clearer understanding of just how widely this game was discounted and sold would have changed was how we communicated what we were doing in the initial announcement and before the release.

We did not intend to increase the price. Our store currently calculates the price in pounds based on the price in dollars. It does not add to that price in order to punish our UK customers or customers anywhere else in the world. This topic has come up many times before and we've explained in detail how it works.

We set a price in dollars, the store then figures out the price in other currencies dynamically based on the currency conversion rate that we have access to through our online store partner. This does not match exactly the rate you see in the newspaper because we are charged for the currency conversion by the folks that do it and that is passed along to us and thus to you in a slightly worse conversion rate (by about 2% or so, if I recall correctly). At the end of the day, the money that we and the developer gets is the same whether you purchase in US dollars or UK pounds or any other currency. We're not getting more from UK customers than from US customers.

I know that in the past when we put AGEOD games up on our store, our non-US prices also did not match theirs because they used a different method of calculating the non-US prices. This is not new to this release, but it is how every game in our store is priced.

As far as future releases, we are in the process of adding all the other releases, including a new version of Rise of Prussia and all the extra DLCs for all AGEOD games to the Matrix and Slitherine stores. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes. We are doing our best to help AGEOD based on our knowledge of this market, not hurt them. We're following the same strategy that has worked for Matrix and Slitherine and our other developers. I freely acknowledge this strategy does not make sense for the wider market of non-wargames but at the same time the wider market wisdom does not work as well for wargames as a lot the posters here may assume.

We (Matrix, Slitherine and AGEOD) are already all together funding development on future AGEOD titles and we believe based on our data that all of this together will mean that we can all enjoy the outstanding and creative wargames AGEOD makes for years to come. That, ultimately, is our goal. We entered a partnership with AGEOD because we like their games, like them and want them to succeed.

Regards,

- Erik

Everyone please keep this civil and constructive, there is no need make disagreement personal.

Regards,

- Erik