Matrix Games Forums

Damian,

I echo everyone's thoughts on the importance of not letting China get out of control. My advice is don't panic and try to do too much all at once. You have to concentrate on a few areas at first to prevent further problems developing.

You've helped me so much in the past with suggestions for my economy, I'd certainly be willing to offer any help on China. I think I understand the theatre pretty well and might be able to give you a new perspective in a few areas. You mentioned sending a save to another poster, I'd be willing to take a look if you want any help.

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Fionn tells me he had 6k PP's to buy out units. CRAP! I can't deal with 4 divs ...

Sorry 'bout that... [;)]

Though I think this will only buy three complete divisions.

30 Aug '42
Major action for today was near Ramtree Is. SS-153 took out one CM and then a DD SCTF finished off the other CM. Then my bombers came in and mostly finished off a small transport TF.

Sweeps of Ramtree were particularly bad. I lost about 30 Oscars from multiple units either sweeping or escorting the attack on the small transport group(above). I have 2 days before the Tojo becomes available. I'm going to produce 90/mth so I'm hoping that is will prove more difficult to bring down.

Fionn has brought a single DD near to Darwin which was not hit by my Betty's at Darwin. He is probing and making sure that I keep my forward bases covered with SCTF's. It is a suicide run for those poor sailors but that is the nature of digital Vs reality.

Near Ichang, I pushed back some Chinese Div's which opens the route to the soft underbelly, but with Fionn now looking to match each of my bases with a Chinese Div or two - I think I won't drive too hard into the interior.

--------------------------------

Took a long look at the map overnight and then had a restless sleep. Usually I don't have a problem making decisions that are likely to end in a pile of dung. But this is a case of a deer in the headlights.

Logistics usually drive most of my decisions, although in this game I really dropped the ball in China and will pay the price for that in coming months.

Here is my dilemma and options:
I'm running lean on fuel and can't really afford a protracted naval blockade and supply-run situation. I know that strategically I should take Attu and the bases along the chain. I should do this by either a direct assault on Attu or taking Adak and blockading the Attu for a bit. I believe that I have enough muscle to take Umnak and maybe Dutch Harbor too once taking Adak.
Why has it taken me so long to move on these Is.? Well, I had to buy out some units in Japan and move enough AP's and AK-t's in place to lift the force. As I was also withdrawing from NW Australia, Fiji and New Caledonia, as well as getting ready to move some forces in China from Canton to other Chinese area's ... I was getting stretched on transports. All this movement has cost a lot of fuel too (about 100K /30 days).
I'm sure that Fionn has resupplied Attu, placed mines and probably a load of PT's (it's his M.O). I've seen TF's heading to Adak and other Is. So, I'm pretty sure they are garrisoned now. My advantage is that the airfields are still undeveloped and it will mean that he will have to use his fleet or just (my nemesis) PT's. Obviously, the downside is that I will have to develop those bases.

OOB.
Ships
5 BB's
5 CV's
8 CA's
6 CL's
30 DD's
8 DMS
+ transport (AP's, AK's)

LCU's - yes, there are no Div's available.
2 Armor Units (74 AV)
62nd Inf Grp (250)
102 Inf. Reg (81)
61 st. Inf Grp (252)
144th Inf. Reg. (135)
Maizuru 3rd (63)
303rd Ind Inf Batt (42)
Sasebo 6th SNLF (61)
Kure 5th SNLF (62)
1st. Art Motar Rgt. - not enough.
Ind Eng Unit () - not enough !
21st Special Base (30)
25th Air Flot.
Total AV = 1050
Reserve - These are being moved from the Sth Pac. and will not be in the first wave.
4th Ind. Eng Reg.
48th Eng Reg.
Maizuru 2nd SNLF
Ichiki Det.
Maizuru 1st SNLF.
Guards Mixed Bde.

So here are the options:
1. Move those troops into China to see if I can bolster my defenses. I have 4.5K troops waiting in Kwantang, but at the rate I use PP's it will take some time to
2. Take back the Kuriles and raid the Aleutians. Then I can sit back until winter is over.(Nov-Feb)
3. Frontal Assault on Attu.
4. Take other bases and isolate Attu.

ORIGINAL: floydg

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Fionn tells me he had 6k PP's to buy out units. CRAP! I can't deal with 4 divs ...

Sorry 'bout that... [;)]

Though I think this will only buy three complete divisions.

Sometimes I'm glass half full, sometimes not ... this is one of those ... can you pick my mood? [:D]

Apart from Floyd ... anyone want to weigh in on the post above ?

I'm reading both so I'll avoid substantive advice, but I will say this: play the game, not the man. Whatever you do, do it. Stay decisive as Alfred suggested.

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I'm reading both so I'll avoid substantive advice, but I will say this: play the game, not the man. Whatever you do, do it. Stay decisive as Alfred suggested.

+1

Damian, you know what to do:
1. Seize the initiative back in CHI, no matter the cost.
2. Take Adak, seal the Kuriles, resecure them, no matter the cost.

Failure on either of these two things will cost you the war in '43. Right?

These are not big secrets. Fionn knows this, you know this, everyone knows this. We also all know that he will do everything he can to keep you from focusing on these two things. Don't get distracted. Fionn is a master at this. He's going to hit you from everywhere he can with everything that he can and he couldn't care less about his losses. That's why he is so dangerous as the allied player.

Most allied players play like the allies: conserve forces, don't risk assets, conquer IJ with minimal losses. Fionn plays the allies like Ghenkis Khan: pillage the entire planet as fast as possible without a care about the losses as long as he is still standing at the end.

Agree with Pax.

But fortunately for Damian, I depleted Fionn's forces enough that he has only half a kitchen sink left to throw Damian... [:D]

ORIGINAL: floydg

I depleted Fionn's forces enough that he has only half a kitchen sink left to throw Damian... [:D]

Only with respect to the starting USN forces. Allied air and LCU's are largely intact. And the CV's that you lost, Fionn will resurrect those air groups as LBA.

1 Sept - 5 Sept '42
Been a very busy guy the last few days with work. I'll try to update quickly what has been happening..

Most of the action focuses on Burma and the Aleutians.

On the first, KB is spotted 8 hexes SW of Amchitka Is. I guess Fionn has plenty of search capability up in the Aleutians and it is my fault for not being sneaky in my approach. What follows is a bit of cat & mouse where I end up getting nothing for my trouble. On one crucial day, my planes didn't fly and that is the Aleutians in Autumn. I had planned to clear the baffles and take out Fionn's waiting SCTF's ready to prey on my transports. I also tried a crazy Ivan, by moving KB deliberately West and then coming back quickly... I guess he's played "What's the time, Mr. Wolf?"

Anyway, I know I've given him a load of time to prepare the defense and I expect a bit of surface combat in the coming turns.

I also realize too late that my planning for this operation is slapdash and not well thought out. If I could take it back right now, I would. Instead of having all my troops bundled into AP/AK's, I'd use some BB/CA/DD FT's to land a bunch of troops on Adak, then change these TF's to bombard Dutch Harbor and Adak and then bring in the AP's covered by KB. After that expand out to Amchitka and Attu. Take Umnak and bomb the crap out of Dutch ... Too late now, here goes nothing in the next few days...

In Australia, I've almost FT my troops from Carnarvon and they have made their way to Darwin. I'm still not sure I can hold the line here and we'll see if I need to get out quickly soon as Fionn is about to take Katherine.

In Burma, things have been fairly quiet, except I decided to cross the river and take Myitkyina. Some of you might find this strange to say ... but I only took the base to allow my forces to Strat quickly back to Rangoon.. I see Fionn has the Chinese amassing on the Lashio border. I think I said to him no Chinese in Burma ... but maybe my mind is foggy. Anyway, Burma is a sideshow. I also got lucky with a BB TF that destroyed about 150 fighters at Akyab. It is nice to catch Fionn on the hop. Unfortunately, my LB didn't fly the next day to follow up. But it probably would have cost too many Oscars in escorts.

Finally, my Tojo's finally came online. I'll be producing 90/mth.

6 Sept - 24 Sept '42
Sorry, I've been too busy with work to properly update this. I've also been dabbling in Kerbal Space Program.

Anyway, I'll try to give a little insight into what has happened and my thinking going forward.

This month has seen the Allies stop the IJ advance and take back large swathes of land.

Aleutians
According to Fionn, I was about 6 days too late to launch the attack. This was due to a real lack of PP's and amphib's near Ominato. I really should have thought of this while still playing Floyd, but it is what it is.

I dabbled with landing at Adak, but seeing the AF increase one point every 4 days, I missed the window there.

Eventually I landed at Attu, but probably should have taken some of the smaller bases surrounding it. My troops had terrible disruption on landing, most likely because of their long voyages around the Archipelago and Attu was found to have a large amount of AV already present. Another error on my part for not enough recon and not being decisive.

A large SCTF V SCTF ensued where I just came out on top, but the loss of CL Yubari and 2 DMS's smarts. Then, there was a large aerial duel over my CV's which saw a 3:1 in my favor. But my airwings took very big losses. Akagi was bombed but took little damage. As I said to Fionn at the time; I won the battle but have lost the Aleutian campaign.

My SLOC's were too far and I moved some AKE's to Paramushiro & Etorofu. Paramushiro is now a transfer base for my CV airwings coming back to replenish and I've basically taken so many Val losses that I've taken them off the CV's and replaced them with more fighters.

The D3A1 Val is still in production and I didn't upgrade to the A2 because of the range loss even though they are 27 km/h faster. I'm sort of regretting that decision now having lost valuable aircrew. The A6M2 is due to be replaced with the 3a next month.

Right now, there has been a little lull in the action but I'm about to try an evac of Attu and I'm really worried that I rushed the orders and something wrong will happen.

Kuriles
I'm using a combination of DB, TB, LB to suppress the airfields. It is stupid that even without supplies these airfields still repair because there are engineers present. This IMHO is just B.S. Fionn even thinks it is ridiculous.

Burma
I took Myitkyna and then withdrew back to the Mandalay line. I would love to have fought for Swebo which just fell, but the lack of troops in stock and the lack of PP's is really killing me. Fionn seems to have had a nice nest egg to begin with and that is why we are seeing such sweeping changes on the map.

Fionn is driving masses of troops into Ramtree with massive Naval support to help with the 1 day offload. I see that the British BB's are back and I'm ready to chuck every tug boat I have at it. Cause I need to stop the rot pretty soon or I'll be vulnerable further South. Fionn likes to hop down.

Anyway, I've fortified the usual approaches but once Fionn gets past Ramtree and Mandalay and they join forces, Bangkok and Singapore will be vulnerable fairly quickly. It may seem bleating, but really the amount of troops that the Allies have at their disposal should mean every stock game should finish in mid-43.

China
I've halted his advance in 2 different directions, bombed the crap out of a lot of LCU's and LI/HI installations, but my mobile reinforcement force is now zero. I'm about to launch a counter attack on Wenchow, I'm hoping this will be an easy campaign.

Australia
Fighting a defensive withdrawal, I still think I can make a stand at Darwin. His AV matches mine at present - but his LB is becoming more of a threat and my Tojo's are not doing the business as much as I would like. Fionn has also taken to capturing the Southern part of Dutch New Guinea. I'm taking the bases back one by one, but once Darwin is untenable the rush of FT's will come.

Moving forward
... more next time.

Umm, I am willing to share each turn via a dropbox share for those interested. Fionn, is a good player. I think I'm pretty reasonable too ... but I'm open to advice

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/176 ... pae083.pws
PM - me for password.

I thought I had made a mistake and was reading Nemo's AAR when I read your latest update [;)] so I went back and wanted to remind you of Alfred's posting earlier:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No, you have not lost the initiative. You are giving it away for free. Like all his opponents you commence the match already defeated by Nemo's reputation. Your opponent will engage in several early actions, present them as being under his total control, distract you from following an appropriate plan, and be applauded by the peanut gallery as evidence of his genius (or the demonstration once again of the inevitability of the superiority of Soviet doctrine). When in reality it will all be smoke and mirrors to which, on the evidence presented so far by you, you will meekly acquiesce.

As far as I can see Nemo mainly defeats his opponents outside the game itself; I am not doubting his ability in-game but his primary mastery is in handling the psychology of his opponent. Alfred has beautifuly summed this up in the paragraph I have quoted; your update appears to some degree to be from Nemo's point of view. As an example you mention "Fionn" 8 times in your post, take a step back and read what you wrote and think why.

Don't let Nemo tell you how things are going, look at the game and decide for yourself. A couple of years ago Nemo convinced the forum that Palembang was the most important hex on the map, well it's not..... it's the most valuable, but that's a completely different concept.

A couple of points:

1. If the Japanese don't achieve auto-victory in early '43 then the Allies will win, the only question is to what degree. From that point forward it's not about winning, it's about slowing your eventual demise.
2. Another of Alfreds posts some time ago referred to his frustration at players ignoring the game victory conditions and declaring "I'll know when I've won", well that also translates to "I'll know when I've lost". Don't fall into that trap, allow the game victory screen to tell you how the game went, not anyone else.

Finally, I could be wrong here but I don't think Nemo has ever finished a game..... I think that he actually always declares at some point "I have won and the challenge is gone", having wrested the pschological initiative from his opponent some time ago that statement is taken as fact, but is it really?

Get back in the ring and continue giving him a good kicking! Make him sweat for his eventual '45 victory [:'(]

It ain't as easy at it seems believe me. I am in October '44 as the Allies and only now feel like I am getting on top. I didn't take half the kicking that you gave the Allies in your game. My opponents are damn good and maybe I am not as aggressive as Nemo, is but it is tough all the way thru to '44. US army airframe numbers in particular are a huge problem for the Allies even in late '44. US subs are toothless against a well managed ASW campaign. China is always vulnerable. In my game China collapsed in late '43 into '44 - I only hold Chungking now. I think many Japanese player beat themselves.

Then again, maybe thats all wrong and I am just crap

Regards
Andrew

ORIGINAL: aoffen

It ain't as easy at it seems believe me. I am in October '44 as the Allies and only now feel like I am getting on top. I didn't take half the kicking that you gave the Allies in your game. My opponents are damn good and maybe I am not as aggressive as Nemo, is but it is tough all the way thru to '44. US army airframe numbers in particular are a huge problem for the Allies even in late '44. US subs are toothless against a well managed ASW campaign. China is always vulnerable. In my game China collapsed in late '43 into '44 - I only hold Chungking now. I think many Japanese player beat themselves.

Then again, maybe thats all wrong and I am just crap

Regards
Andrew

Well, I´m experiencing the exact same thing. But perhaps we are both crap? [:D]

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

I thought I had made a mistake and was reading Nemo's AAR when I read your latest update [;)] so I went back and wanted to remind you of Alfred's posting earlier:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

No, you have not lost the initiative. You are giving it away for free. Like all his opponents you commence the match already defeated by Nemo's reputation. Your opponent will engage in several early actions, present them as being under his total control, distract you from following an appropriate plan, and be applauded by the peanut gallery as evidence of his genius (or the demonstration once again of the inevitability of the superiority of Soviet doctrine). When in reality it will all be smoke and mirrors to which, on the evidence presented so far by you, you will meekly acquiesce.

As far as I can see Nemo mainly defeats his opponents outside the game itself; I am not doubting his ability in-game but his primary mastery is in handling the psychology of his opponent. Alfred has beautifuly summed this up in the paragraph I have quoted; your update appears to some degree to be from Nemo's point of view. As an example you mention "Fionn" 8 times in your post, take a step back and read what you wrote and think why.

Don't let Nemo tell you how things are going, look at the game and decide for yourself. A couple of years ago Nemo convinced the forum that Palembang was the most important hex on the map, well it's not..... it's the most valuable, but that's a completely different concept.

A couple of points:

1. If the Japanese don't achieve auto-victory in early '43 then the Allies will win, the only question is to what degree. From that point forward it's not about winning, it's about slowing your eventual demise.
2. Another of Alfreds posts some time ago referred to his frustration at players ignoring the game victory conditions and declaring "I'll know when I've won", well that also translates to "I'll know when I've lost". Don't fall into that trap, allow the game victory screen to tell you how the game went, not anyone else.

Finally, I could be wrong here but I don't think Nemo has ever finished a game..... I think that he actually always declares at some point "I have won and the challenge is gone", having wrested the pschological initiative from his opponent some time ago that statement is taken as fact, but is it really?

Get back in the ring and continue giving him a good kicking! Make him sweat for his eventual '45 victory [:'(]

+1

Playing Japan is about psychological and emotional fortitude and the ability to take knocks and keep coming. You are still in control.

Guys -
I am not acquiescing and certainly no sycophant of Fionn. Oops, I mentioned his name [;)] I was brought up ultra-competitive in a family of sport and board game players. I have an A type personality, although that has been replaced with a more balanced approach to life after some hard lines in my late - 20's.

Let's take an example of stupidity and cunning that didn't pay off recently. Why the conundrum ? Well, I was wrong to try to extract my troops from Attu in the first place, but I was right to attempt to dent and maybe reverse the Allied positions on the Aleutians.

I am coming up with a workable solution to the dropbox thing. I will upload combat save and my orders as 2 different files. I will archive 5 days. We are using the stacking limits, which I will point too as well and my own Scen 1 mod with ASW limits and economic changes.

OK ... I'll update this during the day, so you can have the last few turns.

J2 Beta
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/176 ... 1123j2.exe

Stacking limits https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/176 ... 281%29.zip

Combat Initial thrust into Attu 28th
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/176 ... eC_296.pws

Combat Second round (heavy action)29th
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/176 ... eC_297.pws
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/176 ... Ord297.pws

Ouch on the Attu battle. I would have at least one of your SAGs on a stationary patrol at Attu with a 1 hex react. The small react usually allows the BBs to go after anything arriving before it hits the transports.

If those are slow US BBs the KB should be able to run them down, right?

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Guys -
I am not acquiescing and certainly no sycophant of Fionn. Oops, I mentioned his name [;)] I was brought up ultra-competitive in a family of sport and board game players. I have an A type personality, although that has been replaced with a more balanced approach to life after some hard lines in my late - 20's.

Great to hear it and hope I didn't offend, it wasn't my intent.

I believe that Nemo talks about the long game, but actually plays the short to medium game - convinced that he can declare victory before long. Looking forward to seeing this go all the way [:)]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. [:)] While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

Check in with my opponents SqzMyLemon and obvert. Both have AARs ongoing against me. I´m sure they can give you good advice on China! [:)] Once you start applying pressure to the Chinese the supply will nose dive. In my first game I was down to under 5k supply in whole of China just before the collapse. Going on the offensive as the allies in China I think is a very big mistake. You should be able to exploit that. [:)]

my ongoing campaign against Cuttlefish sees 25,000 Chinese av blitzing through Southern China on their march to Shanghai and nothing can stop them. Babeslite version, so equivalent to scen 1 in LCU and air units. It much depends on the early 3-4 months, if the Japanese player can't take advantage of the setup in the game, then he will have an as hard life in China as the Japanese had in real life. Of course the Chinese need supply, so without Burma secured, they won't have supply. With supply, they are a steamroller as battles are decided by assault value in the game and if you've got Chinese stacks of 10,000av each, fully prepped, exp up to 55+ you'll see Chinese adjusted av of 15,000 and higher, kicking the Japanese out of pretty much all positions. I was long wondering why I was advancing all over the map until I realized the Japanese must be running out of ground units as they have lost 8000 pts for ground losses by 9/43.

All the Chinese need are a better positioning at start (not the historical positions that are nothing but a huge disadvantage in the game) and supply and you will end up having more than 30,000 Chinese av in late 43. And how much would the Japanese have by that time? 1/3? Probably not even that much and for sure not that much mobile as there are many bases that have high garisson requirements, Shanghai has nearly 1000 av requirement.

OT-sorry
Hi CT. What are the babes lite modifications that improve the china situation?

ORIGINAL: bigred

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I´m an allied player that have lost China twice in Scenario 1. [:)] While I´m no expert on the Japanese side I think its not much an allied player can do against a determined Japanese attack. From the AARs I follow I think CR is the only one that has been able to stand his ground in China. But its looks like his opponent isn´t making much of an effort either.

Check in with my opponents SqzMyLemon and obvert. Both have AARs ongoing against me. I´m sure they can give you good advice on China! [:)] Once you start applying pressure to the Chinese the supply will nose dive. In my first game I was down to under 5k supply in whole of China just before the collapse. Going on the offensive as the allies in China I think is a very big mistake. You should be able to exploit that. [:)]

my ongoing campaign against Cuttlefish sees 25,000 Chinese av blitzing through Southern China on their march to Shanghai and nothing can stop them. Babeslite version, so equivalent to scen 1 in LCU and air units. It much depends on the early 3-4 months, if the Japanese player can't take advantage of the setup in the game, then he will have an as hard life in China as the Japanese had in real life. Of course the Chinese need supply, so without Burma secured, they won't have supply. With supply, they are a steamroller as battles are decided by assault value in the game and if you've got Chinese stacks of 10,000av each, fully prepped, exp up to 55+ you'll see Chinese adjusted av of 15,000 and higher, kicking the Japanese out of pretty much all positions. I was long wondering why I was advancing all over the map until I realized the Japanese must be running out of ground units as they have lost 8000 pts for ground losses by 9/43.

All the Chinese need are a better positioning at start (not the historical positions that are nothing but a huge disadvantage in the game) and supply and you will end up having more than 30,000 Chinese av in late 43. And how much would the Japanese have by that time? 1/3? Probably not even that much and for sure not that much mobile as there are many bases that have high garisson requirements, Shanghai has nearly 1000 av requirement.

OT-sorry
Hi CT. What are the babes lite modifications that improve the china situation?

no modifications in that regard as far as I know