Physical Only ?

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Those who are digital-only are not the target audience of this release.

I'm not sure that I understand...so the computer game is aimed at a sub-set of the people who play the board game, rather than trying to expand the number of players?

If that is the plan, shouldn't ADG be concerned that many of the people buying the computer version will then sell their used version of the board game, thus cratering the market for new board games?

Since I don't know the game at all, I'm not upset either way, but I am rather intrigued by their business model.

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Not all who buy this game are anti-board game. Nor are all of those already familiar with the board game. There is opportunity for new sales of the board game. In addition, WiF is still being added to and developed by ADG. Those who are digital-only are not the target audience of this release.

Oh, come on.....
You're saying that someone will buy the PC version incl. books for $100.
Then he'll think "wow, this is a great game, I must shell out ANOTHER $100 for the game components".
Seriously?

And if the target audience isn't the digital-only crowd, then why would you need the books?
Presumably the ADG game comes with some sort of an instruction leaflet of its own?

Btw, I have a little over 80 boardgames in my collection including VGs Vietnam, ASL & The Longest Day.
Whatever else people may call me, I'm certainly not 'anti-boardgame'

[CheerfullyInsane]

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read this entire thread.Can someone please explain why it is required for play to have the hardbooks?And please dont say "the game wont be the same without them".How would it change the game?

So far there hasn't been anything resembling an explanation, no. [:D]

[wodin]

Maybe putting the books on ebay to re coup costs is the answer.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

First off WiF is NOT by any streach a 'normal' computer game. I think this is what is causing all the issues on this (and maybe other topics too).

I cannot stress enough this point that WiF has NOTHING in common with 99% of any computer games that people here would normally buy.

ADG who owns the rights to WiF is STILL trying to sell PHYSICAL copies of the board game. So the computer version of WiF is in DIRECT competition with sales of the board game. So if a digitial copy of WiF was offered, what do you think would happen to sales of the actual board game? Rapiadly approch zero would be my guess. I think this release even without an AI is going to have a major impact already. So no reason to accelerate the process even more.

So Matrix/ADG want to a) put out a high quality produce, hence the hard bound manuals, and b) not try and eliminate sales of the board game itself. A fine line if there ever was one

This is what I consider the main reason for a physical copy only. This is NOT going to change anytime soon. Again because ADG is still selling physical games themselves. At some point in time (maybe after the AI version is released), ADG will stop selling the physical board and let Matrix sell a digital only version. This is especially more likely if sales of this version are high.

So if you are that upset about the physical copy, simply do not buy it. But Matrix/ADG are NOT doing this just to make things more difficult for you to buy the game.

I did suggest to Erik at Matrix to allow a digital only version to be offered without the physical manuals, but wherther you wanted the manuals or not you still had to pay the same price for the game. You just would not have to pay all the add on shipping/customs/etc. costs for the physical books. I have no clue if that is something MAtrix can do or not but think it is something they should do if possible.

If not then simply do as aspqzr suggests in the Modest Proposal thread as that is yet another workaround for those that REALLY do not want the manuals.

But please stop complaining about it and lets start discussing game realated stuff which I find much more interesting than yet another thread on this.

So - let me get this right?

You are saying that the boardgame and this game ARE NOT in direct competition, but the boardgame and the digital game ARE in direct competition? Can you explain to me why the DIGITAL computer version is only in direct competition with the boardgame but the physical copy is not?

And you are also saying that people who are requesting the digital copy will either a) buy the physical computer version or b) buy the boardgame or c) both?

[CheerfullyInsane]

Mr. Rutins (or any other Matrix Staff reading),

Could I trouble you for a clarification?
Say I use the 'trick' from the Modest Proposal thread; as in I order the game, get the download and reg-key, then have the books+disc sent to a US friend tp avoid shipping and import tariffs.
He in turn refuses to accept it, and it is thus returned to you.
Presumably the game is still registered to me, and the key printed on the disc won't get re-used in any way?

I agree that it's a very ugly work-around, and I plan to wait for a while to see if any other options opens up.
But would I be doing anything illegal or in any way risk the license being removed?

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
...Those who are digital-only are not the target audience of this release.

And you are saying that ADG and Matrix/Slitherine have no interest in other peoples money - just people who play the board game/played the board game/have the board game/want the physical manuals?

I've seen some crap around these forums over the years - but some of the threads, suggestions and "company line" rubbish targeted at this release are simply astounding.

Now I have heard Matrix and Slitherine suggest they know the market regarding what price to charge. They have all the data. That's fair enough. Fine. I'll submit to that.

But what? Now you are telling me that Matrix and Slitherine know what's best for their customers and what is best, in this case, is to NOT give purchasing options? They know best "for a fact" that this game is best with the manuals and if the people who wanted digital only were given that option, they'd be crying in their beer because Matrix knew best but they didn't listen and so didn't get the manuals? Please - give it a rest.

There is one reason why the manuals are enforced...that's to make sure they're sold. It's entirely possible Matrix have taken a dent in profit "margin" - but that is the reason.

And I think it was incredibly insensitive and extremely disingenuous of Matrix/Slitherine to enforce physical only knowing full well the cost implications to their European customers.

[okiemcguire]

Anybody need a shipping address here in the US, contact me by PM. I would love to have the hard back books. I am currently a beta tester for MWiF but live on a fixed income (retired). Not sure when I will be able to budget for the game... But since I am still beta testing, having the hard back books rather than referring to the online manuals would be great. Mike

[BlackStarWizard]

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

I have read this entire thread.Can someone please explain why it is required for play to have the hardbooks?And please dont say "the game wont be the same without them".How would it change the game?

They are not needed at all. The same books are available for download as indexed PDFs, which is less sexy but more practical (and it's hundreds of pages).

[bairdlander2]

ok,so I will ask again.What is the reason we are being forced to get manuals?Can we just get a reasonable answer.Please no "because you will enjoy it more" or the "experiance will feel differant" or something along those lines.Just a straight answer is all we are asking.If it is a contract with ADG,fine,I can accept that.Thanks.

[Ingtar]

I am guessing here, but I believe that since the pricing was set not to force the board game into extinction, this is Matrix' attempt to give more value for the money they are charging. Again, I am on the outside looking in, so this is my best guess.

[composer99]

Keep in mind if there is a contractual element between ADG & Matrix with respect to the requirement to ship the game with manuals, and with respect to pricing, Matrix may not be able to discuss it publicly.

If memory serves Matrix personnel have confirmed they have reduced their margins on MWiF as a result of the manuals. My speculation is that such a move implies some kind of obligation Matrix has to discharge.

[Maesphil74]

ORIGINAL: Ingtar

I am guessing here, but I believe that since the pricing was set not to force the board game into extinction, this is Matrix' attempt to give more value for the money they are charging. Again, I am on the outside looking in, so this is my best guess.

This.
And the fact they released without the AI.
They had to exchange the "value of the AI" with something else (who would pay 112 euro + taxes) for a boardgame assistant.

And then those maps: what would you do with them if you don't have the boardgame (no counters)?
Buy some counters!!
So that's a nice way of making ADG some money.

And I don't even really mind them trying to justify all this with some marketing turbo speak.
Hell, they can sell and charge what they want for all I care.
I do find it not very nice of them to only offer physical shipments, well knowing what this would mean for their european customers...But hey, it is what it is.

I'm just not buying this without an AI (which was promised 10+ years ago).
I hope I am entitled to this opionon!

[bairdlander2]

Yes,what is the purpose of the giant map?[&:]

[composer99]

The map is an optional add-on to my knowledge, unlike the player's manuals.

(And of course, its purpose is to look awesome. [:D])

[reynt]

Again.

- As good MATRIXGAMES client, I have the right to enjoy World in Flames.
- I think then are not things.

I feel discouraged, many years waiting for the game and now I can not play.

Sorry for my bad English.

Regards




Repito.

- Como buen cliente de MATRIXGAMES, tengo derecho a disfrutar de World in Flames.
- Pienso que así no se hacen las cosas.

Me siento desanimado, muchos años esperando el juego y ahora no lo puedo jugar.

Perdón por mi mal inglés.

Saludos

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Maybe putting the books on ebay to re coup costs is the answer.

target audience isn't the digital

And who is going to buy them ? Since you cant buy the game without the books the only people wanting the books are those who have the game through "other" means. What makes you think there is a market for the books which you can only get with the game ?

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: jomni

The game is worthless without the books. Bad graphics, no Ai... Think of it as buying the definitive WiF ruleset with a little helper software included as a bonus.

Why is it worthless ? - I say again - I will load the books on my kindle fire and read them there. I will never touch the books. And I am not even complaining that I have to pay for books I will never use - I am complaining about the fact I have to have the frickin things posted to me. I will pay the same price for a digital copy as for a physical copy - I just wont fill the profit coffers of royal mail and customs to get a bunch of stuff I neither need nor want.

Matrix have yet to proffer a reasonable explanation why this is not possible - aside from the earlier marketing BS. They can keep the books and sellem on ebay.

[rickier65]

I've been following this forum for a quite a while now and reading all of the current threads on the "physical vs download only" has been interesting. It seems quite a few folks are primarily more concerned with the added cost of having the physical material delivered (with potential custom fees added) than with the cost of the game itself.

One poster, aspqrz, initiated a thread with a suggestion to order it and have it shipped to a US address, for those that really didn't want the physical components. This actually sounds like a reasonable solution, if it's really the additional costs that is the issue.

That sounds like a pretty creative solution and to piggy back on that, you might want to try and find a physical address for Matrix games, and have it shipped to them, I believe they have addresses in at least a couple of US locations.

Of course, personally, the physical components look great to me -- so if anyone want to ship them to me, go for it! I really can't imagine not wanting them, but if it means up to a 50% premium for shipping and customs, I can appreciate the concern.

Rick

[wodin]

Thought World in Flames collectors maybe interested I suppose..forgive me because I'm stupid.

I suppose we need to remember the profits will get split three ways aswell..prob in this order ADG, Slitherine followed by Mr OKeets.

ORIGINAL: DBeves

ORIGINAL: wodin

Maybe putting the books on ebay to re coup costs is the answer.

target audience isn't the digital

And who is going to buy them ? Since you cant buy the game without the books the only people wanting the books are those who have the game through "other" means. What makes you think there is a market for the books which you can only get with the game ?