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RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:00 pm
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 3
I made a bit of a mistake with the Germans last impulse - although it only turned out to be a mistake because the weather changed. I used all my HQ to re-organise units. This means I cannot get a great attack on Warsaw this impulse....
I play safe and use the maximum units I can to take out Lodz. The Poles of course choose the Assault table.
The odds are 7:1 but the rain takes this down to 5:1 - however with both Poles disorganised the Germans get a +2 together with a +1 because I am using a Combat Engineer against a 2/3 factory city (see Orm's post 84 below for an explanation.
The Germans roll a 5(8). This destroys the Polish defenders and the Germans are not disorganised. The Nazis hope that the turn does not end before they have a crack at Warsaw.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:01 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 3
The impulses moves briskly through the various phases without any action being taken until we come to Ground Strike. The German checks the remaining Polish units to confirm that they are both already disorganised - they are - so Ground Strike is not required. This is good as the German will have more air rebases at the end of the impulse.
The Japanese occupy Chenchow in the north of China and this means a throw on the US Entry chart. Its a 1. In Central China Yammamoto and his army group march toward Wuhan.
I must have missed this. Why did the Japanese set up their units so far from Wuhan and Nanchang? [&:]
warspite1
A bit of a mistake.....
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:05 pm
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 3
Finally, the Germans have 4 rebases, and the Japanese 2 and so the former starts moving assets to the west and the Japanese move their fighters in line with their infantry.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:17 pm
by Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 3
I made a bit of a mistake with the Germans last impulse - although it only turned out to be a mistake because the weather changed. I used all my HQ to re-organise units. This means I cannot get a great attack on Warsaw this impulse....
I play safe and use the maximum units I can to take out Lodz. The Poles of course choose the Assault table.
The odds are 7:1 but the rain takes this down to 5:1 - however with both Poles disorganised the Germans get a +2 together with a +1 for "Terrain and City". I have been through the rules and cannot see what that means. I have absolutely no idea why I have a further +1 bonus. Does anybody know please?
Anyway, I assume this is not a bug and roll a 5(8). This destroys the Polish defenders and the Germans are not disorganised. The Nazis hope that the turn does not end before they have a crack at Warsaw.
In order to check if something is buggy here or not I need to know if you play with the optional
Blitz Bonus.
The +1 you get from city bonus is because the engineer. But I did think that the engineer "special ability" needed to be activated in order to get this bonus. So did you activate it during the attack declaration?
RAC: 22.4.1 Divisions
....
Combat Engineers
Organized ENG are not halved or thirded when attacking or overrunning across a river, canal or fort hexside.
They also provide this benefit to as many land units they are stacked with as the ENG unit’s combat value.
[Clarification. If an offensive chit is used to double the ENG’s combat factors, then the ENG can provide this benefit
to twice as many units - Jan. 8, 1997.] ENG attacking across both a river and a fort hexside, ignore only the fort
hexside. The defender still has all other combat benefits if behind a fort hexside.
Engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll (see 11.16.5) when attacking a 2 or 3 factory stack city. Defending engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending a 2 or 3 factory stack city. These benefits are in
addition to the other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river
into a 2 factory city).
If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before elite units attacking
in winter).
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:22 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 3
I made a bit of a mistake with the Germans last impulse - although it only turned out to be a mistake because the weather changed. I used all my HQ to re-organise units. This means I cannot get a great attack on Warsaw this impulse....
I play safe and use the maximum units I can to take out Lodz. The Poles of course choose the Assault table.
The odds are 7:1 but the rain takes this down to 5:1 - however with both Poles disorganised the Germans get a +2 together with a +1 for "Terrain and City". I have been through the rules and cannot see what that means. I have absolutely no idea why I have a further +1 bonus. Does anybody know please?
Anyway, I assume this is not a bug and roll a 5(8). This destroys the Polish defenders and the Germans are not disorganised. The Nazis hope that the turn does not end before they have a crack at Warsaw.
In order to check if something is buggy here or not I need to know if you play with the optional
Blitz Bonus.
The +1 you get from city bonus is because the engineer. But I did think that the engineer "special ability" needed to be activated in order to get this bonus. So did you activate it during the attack declaration?
RAC: 22.4.1 Divisions
....
Combat Engineers
Organized ENG are not halved or thirded when attacking or overrunning across a river, canal or fort hexside.
They also provide this benefit to as many land units they are stacked with as the ENG unit’s combat value.
[Clarification. If an offensive chit is used to double the ENG’s combat factors, then the ENG can provide this benefit
to twice as many units - Jan. 8, 1997.] ENG attacking across both a river and a fort hexside, ignore only the fort
hexside. The defender still has all other combat benefits if behind a fort hexside.
Engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll (see 11.16.5) when attacking a 2 or 3 factory stack city. Defending engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending a 2 or 3 factory stack city. These benefits are in
addition to the other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river
into a 2 factory city).
If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before elite units attacking
in winter).
warspite1
Thanks Orm. I should have remembered the optionals are sometimes detailed elsewhere. Just annoying as I read through section 11.16 about a dozen times [8|]
I am using Combat Engineers and I did tick usage for this attack. I will amend the post to highlight this and the benefit that accrues.
Cheers matey [:)]
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:29 pm
by Orm
Could you post a picture of the optionals that you are using?
I am getting confused by the changes you have had during these games. [:)]
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:38 pm
by warspite1
There you go [:)]
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:55 pm
by Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
There you go [:)]
Thank you. [:)]
A few comments to the optional rules.
Blitz Bonus provides excellent modifiers to the 1d10 combat table. But it is wise to leave it while learning the game.
In the presence of the enemy gives a benefit to have a picket naval force in contested sea areas so there should be more naval actions.
Variable carrier plane searching could be confusing since it gives a different search bonus for carriers depending on the range of the CVP.
Railway movement bonus is a option that most play without and should always be considered when moving land units. Especially in USSR. In my opinion it works well with
HQ movement. With these two options a HQ should avoid leaving a railway hex.
Variable reorganization cost creates a greater demand on HQA and that you keep most of the armour close to a HQA. It also makes a aggressive strategic bomber campaign more difficult.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:51 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 5
So what do the Allies do with their impulse. There is only a very small chance of the turn ending - even if they all pass - so better to use the impulse to good effect as possible:
Combined (as per the rules) for the USA and USSR
Land for everyone else.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:57 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 5
Gort and the BEF land in Northern France. The HQ lands first in order to ensure compliance with the Foreign Troop Commitment rule.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:00 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 5
In the Air re-base phase the two Polish aircraft fly to Lithuania in order to be interned. This means the aircraft are destroyed but the pilots will be available for use by the Commonwealth next turn.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:03 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 7
The turn does not end - but the weather deteriorates further and the Impulse advance will be a 3.
The Japanese and Germans are now facing Storm in the Northern Temperate Zone...
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:26 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 7
Realising the turn is nearing its end, the Germans rail transport two available infantry corps from Lodz to Essen.
In Poland the Germans surround Warsaw as much as they can.
I am a little confused again on the combat chart but think I have the answer. The
odds are shown as 56:9 or 4:1 (including the two column shift down for the Storm weather). For that to be the case, the odds should be 7:1 as there is no 6:1 on the Assault table.
I think what has happened is:
Actual odds are:
12+13+17 = 42 + Halved units (across river) 27 = 13.5 Total = 55.5 rounded up to 56.
This is the 56:9 showing on the odds table.
However, this would mean 5:1 (as there is no 6:1 on the Assault table)(and thus 3:1 after allowing the two notch downgrade).
But I think in coming to 4:1, the program must allow for the presence of the Engineer meaning that the units it is stacked with are not halved. So:
12+13+17+15 = 57 + Halved Units 12 = 6 Total = 63
63:9 = 7:1 and so the two notch downgrade to 4:1 now works.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:31 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 7
The Germans once again throw a rubbish 5 (but fortunately have a +2 for the disorganised units).
The attackers are all disorganised but no real matter - the Poles lose a units and the second is shattered - thus Warsaw is taken and Poland are beaten.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:41 am
by warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 10
The turn does not end. The Soviets move into Eastern Poland but otherwise there is little to be done. The US Entry is hit by the removal of a chit - and its a 4!
The turn ends on a throw of 1.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:44 am
by warspite1
Sep/Oct
End of Turn
The US Entry stands at 15 and 12. The US Intern the Bearn and the pools stand as follows
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:24 am
by Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 7
Realising the turn is nearing its end, the Germans rail transport two available infantry corps from Lodz to Essen.
In Poland the Germans surround Warsaw as much as they can.
I am a little confused again on the combat chart but think I have the answer. The
odds are shown as 56:9 or 4:1 (including the two column shift down for the Storm weather). For that to be the case, the odds should be 7:1 as there is no 6:1 on the Assault table.
I think what has happened is:
Actual odds are:
12+13+17 = 42 + Halved units (across river) 27 = 13.5 Total = 55.5 rounded up to 56.
This is the 56:9 showing on the odds table.
However, this would mean 5:1 (as there is no 6:1 on the Assault table)(and thus 3:1 after allowing the two notch downgrade).
But I think in coming to 4:1, the program must allow for the presence of the Engineer meaning that the units it is stacked with are not halved. So:
12+13+17+15 = 57 + Halved Units 12 = 6 Total = 63
63:9 = 7:1 and so the two notch downgrade to 4:1 now works.
No. This it not because of the engineer.
It is because you do not calculate the weather effect correctly. 6:1 turns in to 4:1. Rather than confuse things with me trying to explain it I cut in the rule below.
RAC: 8.2.7 Land combat
Land attacks
Reduce the odds in a land attack (see 11.16.5) against a hex in rain by 1 (e.g. 12:1 becomes 11:1, and 3:2
becomes 1:1). Reduce the odds in a land attack against a hex in storm or snow by 2 (e.g. 11-1 becomes 9-1 and 3:1
becomes 3:2). Reduce the odds in a land attack against a hex in blizzard by 3.
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:49 pm
by warspite1
ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Sept/Oct 1939
Impulse: 7
Realising the turn is nearing its end, the Germans rail transport two available infantry corps from Lodz to Essen.
In Poland the Germans surround Warsaw as much as they can.
I am a little confused again on the combat chart but think I have the answer. The
odds are shown as 56:9 or 4:1 (including the two column shift down for the Storm weather). For that to be the case, the odds should be 7:1 as there is no 6:1 on the Assault table.
I think what has happened is:
Actual odds are:
12+13+17 = 42 + Halved units (across river) 27 = 13.5 Total = 55.5 rounded up to 56.
This is the 56:9 showing on the odds table.
However, this would mean 5:1 (as there is no 6:1 on the Assault table)(and thus 3:1 after allowing the two notch downgrade).
But I think in coming to 4:1, the program must allow for the presence of the Engineer meaning that the units it is stacked with are not halved. So:
12+13+17+15 = 57 + Halved Units 12 = 6 Total = 63
63:9 = 7:1 and so the two notch downgrade to 4:1 now works.
No. This it not because of the engineer.
It is because you do not calculate the weather effect correctly. 6:1 turns in to 4:1. Rather than confuse things with me trying to explain it I cut in the rule below.
RAC: 8.2.7 Land combat
Land attacks
Reduce the odds in a land attack (see 11.16.5) against a hex in rain by 1 (e.g. 12:1 becomes 11:1, and 3:2
becomes 1:1). Reduce the odds in a land attack against a hex in storm or snow by 2 (e.g. 11-1 becomes 9-1 and 3:1
becomes 3:2). Reduce the odds in a land attack against a hex in blizzard by 3.
warspite1
Two things:
- so you are saying that the
initial odds do not necessarily follow the Assault or Blitz table e.g. you
can have a 6:1 (at the START of the calculations) even if the Assault table is used?
- So in this case 9 x
7 = 63 and two columns down is 4:1.
BUT If this was on the Blitz table then it would have been 5:1?
So what if the odds were 54:9 and the Assault table was being used?
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:15 pm
by etsadler
As I read it "reduce the odds" means just that, 9 to 1 adjusts to 7-1. It doesn't say "reduce the Combat Results Table column".
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse III The Return
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:26 pm
by Orm
I think the rules example says it all. A -2 reduction means that a 11-1 becomes 9-1 and 3:1 becomes 3:2.
63:9 = 7:1 that is reduced to 5:1 regardless of combat table.
54:9 = 6:1 and is reduced to 4:1 both for assault and for blitz.