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RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:24 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: obvert

Yeeeouch!!!

KB in the DEI. Let the subs loose!! Swarm him and at least give him a scare. Get all combat and any other ships out as fast as possible. Prepare for Mersing.

It's just so early to try anything in the Pacific, but the fleet is intact. Send 8 BBs to bombard Utsonomiya?![:D]

I like Hamamatsu better, or send some volunteers to both. I might wait until he makes a move for India, though... if the entire IJN is in the IO, you'll only have to worry about planes and he doesn't get a lot of those until later in 1942.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:27 am
by Capt. Harlock
- The other half is in the Celbes sea. Marblehead and its escorts are GONE. Houston and Boise is undetected.

He split the KB? Very interesting. What are the chances for reinforcing Wake and Midway?

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:26 am
by JocMeister
Morning guys! Finally managed to log in from the phone.

Lowpe, yeah that was a good call. Should have listened to you. Only consolation I get is that with the KB in DEI Force Z would have been of little use anyway.

Even got the turn file back this morning but didn't have time to open it. As princep says this means he has a clear objective for the 2nd phase and he is on a tight schedule and wants the DEI cleared fast.. . So question is. What's the objective? India or Oz? Or something unusual?

I need to ponder how I play this. The Pacific is wide open right now. But if you think about it it really doesn't matter that much. Sitting firm in the Marshalls doesn't help me much against AV.

Whatever I do next must have the sole aim of making that AV harder for him. Not help me in 43-44.

I think it's a brilliant opening by my opponent. Those BBs won't be much use to me for a long time due to fuel issues early on. The planes on the other hand.... Especially the Cats.. That's pure gold!

I'll update properly tonight when I get home. Million dollar question is where he will go after DEI is secured in 2 months.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:14 am
by Encircled
Having the Pacific fleet untouched does give you a lot of leeway though.

My money is on India. Does DBB make any changes to the experience or equipment of the Indian Army?

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:20 am
by JeffroK
Summary of the previous posts, You should defend everywhere and counterattack everywhere!

I'm not sure this approach will work.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:11 am
by Grollub
ORIGINAL: JeffK

Summary of the previous posts, You should defend everywhere and counterattack everywhere!

I'm not sure this approach will work.

Should pose no problem. He just need to concentrate his forces everywhere.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:11 am
by ny59giants
Like others, my money is on India. Thus, every turn will have me doing orders here first. Fort building for Calcutta, Bombay, and Karachi. AF expansion at Delhi. Use Catalina and/or PBYs to get troops to Port Blair ASAP (use PP to buy out the Chinese transports). I would expect a para drop here very soon to cut off any path to get your short legged fighters out of Malaya to Burma/India.

From China, start those three non-restricted Chinese Corps for Burma.

Looks like you will need to implement my suggestions for India NOW! [;)]

Big Bad Boise to go patrol between Tokyo and Truk in small 4 to 6 hex North South Patrol Zone.
Aussie warships to be just south of Rabaul to take on the 4 old CAs.
Load one of two large FGs at Pearl for Australia.
The old long legged American DBs to go to Wake and then Rabaul.

Have fun!! [:D]

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:17 am
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Million dollar question is where he will go after DEI is secured in 2 months.

He is going to attack.[:)] And where ever he attacks you are likely to lose. So you are asking the wrong question.

No, the million dollar question is where will you go?

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:26 am
by rook749
ORIGINAL: Encircled
My money is on India. Does DBB make any changes to the experience or equipment of the Indian Army?

All I have seen that is a major differences the is British 70th Infantry Division changes as noted above. If you can get this into Calcutta, Deli or Bombay before he attacks one I think it will come as a nasty surprise.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:30 am
by rook749
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
No, the million dollar question is where will you go?

I 100% agree with this. I would start planning for operations in the North, Central and Southwest Pacific. Build strong points where you can attack from in 1942 when he throws the KB and his full weight into India. If he goes for OZ then you still have options to attack him in the Central and North Pacific areas.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:24 am
by JocMeister
Just got home and rushed to open the turn. To my amazement PoW is still afloat. [X(] If it wasn´t for the fact the half the KB is sitting 2 hexes away I´m sure she would make it. I think she took 4 torps and 6 bombs. I will have to scuttle her though as she can only make 6 knots.

I´ll do a proper update tonight after I put Ida to bed.

Regarding an Allied early counter attack I have to ponder this some more. Just throwing stuff into the Pacific won´t do me much good. Fiji and Noumea hold big Japanese multipliers that I rather have in allied possession. NOPAC is good to have from a stretegic perspective as it puts pressure on the Kuriles. The tradeoff is that it holds very little VP value for the Japanese. Same is true for CENTPAC. So if he is shooting for AV he will simply ignore anything I do here. Having good bases for an offensive in 43 won´t help me if I lose to AV in 42. [:D]







RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:53 pm
by JocMeister
[font="Verdana"]December 8th - 41 [/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

A very unusual opening by my opponent.

------------------------
DEI
------------------------

Part of the KB show up outside Mersing covering a massive armada. The AE engine begins the war by moving Force Z only 3 hexes during the turn and massive attacks are launched against the TF.
Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 47
G4M1 Betty x 22


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 28 damaged
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed by flak
G4M1 Betty: 8 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
BC Repulse
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Vampire
Morning Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 56 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
B5N2 Kate x 72
D3A1 Val x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 9 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
CL Danae, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 3
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Vampire
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Mersing at 51,82

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 36
D3A1 Val x 34


Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 9 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Bomb hits 5, heavy damage
CL Danae, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
BC Repulse, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

This is the end of Force Z. Not much unlike the real events. Both the Repulse and PoW will have to be scuttled. Next turn will see a massive landing at Mersing dooming Singers to a early grave. Allied troops will assemble in Central Malaya instead.

------------------------
Philippines
------------------------

Only a smaller LBA strike hit the port at Manila. Airfield is untouched!
Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
G3M2 Nell x 36
G4M1 Betty x 54
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 18


Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
SS S-41, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Saury, Bomb hits 1
SS Seawolf, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Compagnia Filipinas, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Tanager, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS S-38, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Seal, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Salmon, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 1
SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
AS Holland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS Pike, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
SS Sealion, Bomb hits 1
SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1
AO Trinity, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Rochambeau, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
SS Sturgeon, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YO-42, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
TK Hai Kwang, Bomb hits 1
SS Sargo, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
xAKL Anakan, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Another big chunk of the KB appears in the Celebes sea and make short work of the Marblehead TF.
Morning Air attack on TF, near Tandjoengselor at 68,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 27
D3A1 Val x 42


No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Bulmer, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Marblehead, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Paul Jones
DD Stewart, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Parrott
DD Barker
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tandjoengselor at 68,95

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N2 Kate x 71
D3A1 Val x 67


Allied aircraft
no flights

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott, Bomb hits 6, and is sunk
DD Barker, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Marblehead, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Bulmer, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Stewart, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Besides that there isn´t much action. I predict the next turn containing lots of Japanese landings.



Image

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:58 pm
by offenseman
Interesting. I look forward to seeing who the opponent is. Any idea the timetable on that?

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:11 pm
by JocMeister
ORIGINAL: offenseman

Interesting. I look forward to seeing who the opponent is. Any idea the timetable on that?

Sorry, no idea. He said he would let me know.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:36 pm
by JocMeister
I had forgotten the allied 2nd turn...[:(]

India, Malaya and Burma done. Lots and lots left....

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:42 pm
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Regarding an Allied early counter attack I have to ponder this some more. Just throwing stuff into the Pacific won´t do me much good. Fiji and Noumea hold big Japanese multipliers that I rather have in allied possession. NOPAC is good to have from a stretegic perspective as it puts pressure on the Kuriles. The tradeoff is that it holds very little VP value for the Japanese. Same is true for CENTPAC. So if he is shooting for AV he will simply ignore anything I do here. Having good bases for an offensive in 43 won´t help me if I lose to AV in 42. [:D]

Think big, and plan to take the Bonins![X(] Start prepping troops now at Pearl (their not doing anything anyhow). Take several islands at the same time. If the opportunity presents itself you will be ready. If you do it, you can seek to have a carrier clash when you are at your peak strength with local air search.

Go in big and hard and hold. Coastal defense guns,pts, mines, AA, subs, the kitchen sink. Let India, Oz survive on their own while the Yanks take it to the Home Isles.

Send a couple of subs now to begin gathering intel and hold Midway.









RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:56 pm
by Lokasenna
ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Regarding an Allied early counter attack I have to ponder this some more. Just throwing stuff into the Pacific won´t do me much good. Fiji and Noumea hold big Japanese multipliers that I rather have in allied possession. NOPAC is good to have from a stretegic perspective as it puts pressure on the Kuriles. The tradeoff is that it holds very little VP value for the Japanese. Same is true for CENTPAC. So if he is shooting for AV he will simply ignore anything I do here. Having good bases for an offensive in 43 won´t help me if I lose to AV in 42. [:D]

Think big, and plan to take the Bonins![X(] Start prepping troops now at Pearl (their not doing anything anyhow). Take several islands at the same time. If the opportunity presents itself you will be ready. If you do it, you can seek to have a carrier clash when you are at your peak strength with local air search.

Go in big and hard and hold. Coastal defense guns,pts, mines, AA, subs, the kitchen sink. Let India, Oz survive on their own while the Yanks take it to the Home Isles.

Send a couple of subs now to begin gathering intel and hold Midway.









That's kamikaze activation territory.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:14 pm
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
That's kamikaze activation territory.

Can't activate until Jan 1, 1944. And if you can hold onto those islands until then, a lot of Japan will have already burnt down.[:D]



RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:15 pm
by obvert
ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
Regarding an Allied early counter attack I have to ponder this some more. Just throwing stuff into the Pacific won´t do me much good. Fiji and Noumea hold big Japanese multipliers that I rather have in allied possession. NOPAC is good to have from a stretegic perspective as it puts pressure on the Kuriles. The tradeoff is that it holds very little VP value for the Japanese. Same is true for CENTPAC. So if he is shooting for AV he will simply ignore anything I do here. Having good bases for an offensive in 43 won´t help me if I lose to AV in 42. [:D]

Think big, and plan to take the Bonins![X(] Start prepping troops now at Pearl (their not doing anything anyhow). Take several islands at the same time. If the opportunity presents itself you will be ready. If you do it, you can seek to have a carrier clash when you are at your peak strength with local air search.

Go in big and hard and hold. Coastal defense guns,pts, mines, AA, subs, the kitchen sink. Let India, Oz survive on their own while the Yanks take it to the Home Isles.

Send a couple of subs now to begin gathering intel and hold Midway.
Didn't you just throw the Allies out of the Kuriles?

The KB can isolate any island group for the next year or longer and pound away at it relentlessly. Taking with a strategic goal is fine, but holding is not going to be possible at this point or anytime soon.

RE: Return of the Sheep!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:05 pm
by Lowpe
ORIGINAL: obvert
Didn't you just throw the Allies out of the Kuriles?

The KB can isolate any island group for the next year or longer and pound away at it relentlessly. Taking with a strategic goal is fine, but holding is not going to be possible at this point or anytime soon.

Hm., well you have a point[:)], but it is a little apples to oranges. In my game the allies took only one base with two regiments and support troops. That left all the other bases for me to search from and build up, sortie from etc. Could have been a different song if they would have taken three or more islands. (okay, thinking about, I probably would have netted more VPs offset by a possible slow down in other theaters).

The Bonins are three islands that are pretty isolated. Betty range so to speak. And if the KB is trashing the islands, then you know where they are and it is vulnerable and could provide an opportunity for a favorable large scale CV fight in mid 42 favorable to the Allies.

But to work, you would have to go in with everything right when the amphib bonus runs out. Or go in earlier with volunteers designed to divert Japanese forces. Either could work I think. One thing I don't know is what the stacking limit is for those islands in this mod.

Ok, so it probably is a bad idea, but it has elan![:D] I think Nemo has pulled it off in the past if that means anything.

Now, having proposed this course of action, it is only fair to say that I would probably never, ever do anything like this. But I might have a few regiments at Pearl prepare for it, and keep an open mind about the possibility especially with the American navy unscathed.