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I don't follow the BotA much, PQ-18 is interesting reading

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I don't follow the BotA much, PQ-18 is interesting reading

warspite1

In which case I would recommend Arctic Convoys 1941-45 by Richard Woodman. A v.good read. If you ever get a hard on for the Battle of the Atlantic then by the same author there is The Real Cruel Sea - about the merchant navy 1940-43. Another great book.

"Hitler's U-boat War"-Volumes I and II are a huge undertaking, but very informative reading. Blair does some of his best work documenting the deployment and demise of darn near every U-boat in the war. I kid you not.

What was particularly interesting (and underappreciated by yours truly) was how brutally treated the U-boats were in the Bay of Biscay offenses by Coastal Command. After the widespread deployment of airborne radar, the Leigh light and larger ranged (e.g., B-24) aircraft, it was an abattoir.

I've seen this recommended so many times so..... finally ordered [:)]

Speaking of ball-bouncingly beautiful music. Here is the Finnish maestro Sibelius and his 5th Symphony.

Listen to the short section from 1:22 until 3:15 - tis astonishingly beautiful - but why so short??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkzrSZKA4cM

Edit: Sorry wrong thread [8|] Oh well you can listen if you fancy it [:)]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Speaking of ball-bouncingly beautiful music. Here is the Finnish maestro Sibelius and his 5th Symphony.

Listen to the short section from 1:22 until 3:15 - tis astonishingly beautiful - but why so short??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkzrSZKA4cM

Edit: Sorry wrong thread [8|] Oh well you can listen if you fancy it [:)]

Good stuff! Now I have to figure out what movie I heard that same selection in.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I've seen this recommended so many times so..... finally ordered [:)]

Its a hard read.
IMHO, his SILENT VICTORY was a labour of love, his background was in USN subs, and is a great story. HITLERS U-BOATS seems to be a labour, plenty of facts and data without the same storyline.
Still well worth reading.

I can recommend Silent Victory myself. I may get Hitlers U-Boats, for nights when I'm having difficulty getting to sleep [;)]

...anyway, back to torpedo bombers, and here is the finest example of the genre [&o]

The Grumman Avenger - Simply one gorgeous looking aircraft [8D]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...anyway, back to torpedo bombers, and here is the finest example of the genre [&o]

The Grumman Avenger - Simply one gorgeous looking aircraft [8D]

Again with the crack smoking, Warspite1? I thought I told you to lay off that stuff! [:-]

The Grumman Avenger / TBF/TBM was a versatile, reliable and all-round good carrier-based bomber. In terms of looks, though...well...let's just say that it's mother needed to tie pork chops around its ears so that the dog would play with it. Because...DAMN.

For a beautiful torpedo bomber, I offer this alternative. Note the sleek lines, slender wings and overall visage of the B6N1 Jill. She's a beaut.





ETA: Don't even think about uploading any pictures of your homespun stringbags, mate. They may have been effective and serviceable for your RNA units, but they put the 'ug' in Fugly.

Well don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the clean lined beautifully simple look, but given the choice I prefer something with more character.

The Avenger is just sooo full of character, well built, plenty of goodies, bags of fun and all delivered with a twinkle in her eye; the saucy little minx [8D]

So in summary, in my opinion (and therefore a fact) no other torpedo bomber comes close [;)]

Did they fit any Mossies for torpedo carriage?

Now this an ugly torpedo bomber.

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Did they fit any Mossies for torpedo carriage?

warspite1

Indeed - but I'm not sure they were operational in WWII.

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Now this an ugly torpedo bomber.

warspite1

Got character though [:)]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Now this an ugly torpedo bomber.

warspite1

Got character though [:)]

Very cool. [8D]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Got character though [:)]

Naw...what we say around these here parts is that she's "got a nice personality". [;)]

Yeah

Another one in my sign. It is from an Airfix 1/72 box i still have somehwere.

ORIGINAL: Dili

Yeah

Another one in my sign. It is from an Airfix 1/72 box i still have somehwere.

warspite1

Well I like it - in a "so-pig-ugly-its-beautiful-kind-of-way".

Aesthetics can vary from person to person. I think the Jill was the last plane to enter service with the long 3 place greenhouse canopy. It was typical layout for a late 30s torpedo bomber. I think the Grace has better lines than the Jill. Plus it was a more capable plane, though it was too large to operate from any Japanese carriers when it was introduced (it was designed for the Taiho class of which only one was ever built and she was sunk before the Grace was ready).

The Grace had a shorter greenhouse for the crew of two, so it looked more like a dive bomber (a role it could to too). Both the USN and IJN were looking at an all in one attack bomber. The Grace fit that bill two years before the USN's entry (the Skyraider). The Grace also looked like a more robust airplane than the Jill.

Personally I do like the lines of the TBF. It's a lot more airplane than previous generations of carrier torpedo bombers. It also beats out it's competition for acceptance into service, the TBY Seawolf. That plane has been beaten bad with the ugly stick!

http://www.wardrawings.be/WW2/Files/2-Airplanes/Allies/1-USA/07-Maritime-Planes/TBY-Seawolf/TBY-1Seawolf.htm

It is faster and has longer range then the TBF though.

But each to their own.

Bill