Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

So are they soon to ban all shooters and things with violence in them? I mean one thing leads to another and if we let this happen we could see the end of all things related to violence and war. Pretty soon we'll get to play barbie dolls and dress up. We've got to kick it in the bud as Barney says on Andy Griffith show. Kick it in the bud. [:D]

What about all the movies and history documentaries? They gonna ban all that also? Freidricksburg? Gettysburg? How the West was Won? I mean that flag is in a lot of things. Lots of things.

Reminds me of an Andy Griffith episode where Barney lectures Gomer about how a small crime leads to bigger crimes and so on and so on. So Gomer reaches over and picks up a piece of litter sand says, "I wouldn't want to start a crime wave."

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Aurelian




Depends on who won the war I suppose.

warspite1

Yes - history is written by the winners and all that.... But even so - that does not give a reason why an historically accurate FLAG cannot be used in a game???

I will be playing SOW Antietam at the weekend - that has the Confederate Flag in it? So what, shall I get my KKK outfit back from the drycleaners??

[&:]

Only if you play the Southern side and enjoy it.

warspite1

And therein lies the astounding ignorance of the argument. What are they saying here?

- So if the flag remains in game and I play the game (as either side) I run the risk of becoming a hideous racist?

- So if the flag is removed (and replaced by something else a la treatment of the Swastika) I can play either side and I am now free of such concerns and I will not sink to that neanderthal level?

OR

- If I play the game with or without the flag and play as the North and enjoy it I can never be a racist?

- If I play the game as the south and enjoy it I will not be a racist if I don't play with the flag, but if I play with the flag I obviously will be......

Right...... I think its meds time, the world IS completely nuts.

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: H Gilmer

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Yes - history is written by the winners and all that.... But even so - that does not give a reason why an historically accurate FLAG cannot be used in a game???

I will be playing SOW Antietam at the weekend - that has the Confederate Flag in it? So what, shall I get my KKK outfit back from the drycleaners??

[&:]

Only if you play the Southern side and enjoy it.

warspite1

And therein lies the astounding ignorance of the argument. What are they saying here?

- So if the flag remains in game and I play the game (as either side) I run the risk of becoming a hideous racist?

- So if the flag is removed (and replaced by something else a la treatment of the Swastika) I can play either side and I am now free of such concerns and I will not sink to that neanderthal level?

OR

- If I play the game with or without the flag and play as the North and enjoy it I can never be a racist?

- If I play the game as the south and enjoy it I will not be a racist if I don't play with the flag, but if I play with the flag I obviously will be......

Right...... I think its meds time, the world IS completely nuts.

Americans is just crazy. And we have poor education.

Education in the South is poor, but I don't remember any history book teaching us about states rights and the rightness of the Southern cause.

They "refight" the war, though, every day.

Apple has very quietly returned the Civil War games back to the App Store. Ultimate General Gettysburg is there as well as all of the John Tiller games. I guess bad press trumps any "principled stand" they had. [:D]

They "refight" the war, though, every day.

We just luv our Yankee overlords.

Education in the South is poor, but I don't remember any history book teaching us about states rights and the rightness of the Southern cause.

Yeah our country is just sooooooo better off with Federal supremacy.

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Interesting, this actually affects me since I own that game.
It is still for download in my apps section. But not for sale anymore.


My small take on this. The flag should be removed from state capitols and off the flag of Mississippi.
Despite how you feel about it historically, it is a flag of treason.


However, removing it from media items I feel is a bit over the top.

Steam still have Ultimate General up for sale. Has Valve said anything about this?
Then again, Valve sells games with the Nazi Flag (in countries where this is allowed) so I would guess they don't have an issue.

warspite1

But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?

Depends on who won the war I suppose.

Gee, I guess that means Pol Pot was right.

What pisses me off is: I just got a free apple 6 phone recently in a upgrade package, now I find out the "Real" price I have to pay by having something apple, which makes me disgusted I got the phone in the first place, apple can take their flag BS and stuff it.

And if Apple wasn't enough check this out:

http://news.yahoo.com/woman-removes-con ... 05200.html

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

But to who? Depending upon your viewpoint the Stars and Stripes are a flag of treason, no?

Depends on who won the war I suppose.

Gee, I guess that means Pol Pot was right.

Since no one rose to the challenge, let’s assume that the ridiculous idea that right and wrong are determined by which side won has been abandoned. What a Medieval notion: Guilt or innocence determined by mortal combat!

So, if the Confederacy was committing treason, then the American Revolutionaries were, too.

Of course, neither was. To commit treason a minimum requirement is to be an avowed member of the country being transgressed. So, for example, should I openly and officially disavow my US citizenship (a common legal occurrence) and affirm loyalty to a new country – say Britain – then, from that point forward, nothing I do can constitute treason against the US. From then on I could only commit treason against Britain.

The Confederacy openly avowed its separation from the US before any hostile acts were taken. So, the Confederacy could not have been committing treason. (Unfortunately, the same can’t be said of the American Revolutionaries. Hostile acts had been going on long before the Declaration of Independence).

And this is confirmed by the fact that its captured soldiers were treated as prisoners-of-war and none of its leaders were even charged with treason, much less convicted and hanged. Many were denied re-admission as citizens – a literal admission that their disavowment of US allegiance had been valid.

So, can we finally put this monumentally stupid canard to rest?

The Confederacy openly avowed its separation from the US before any hostile acts were taken. So, the Confederacy could not have been committing treason.

[&o]

Strange thing, if you go to the Amazon or Ebay sites that have banned the "racist" confederate flag, you can type in La Raza, or Black Panthers and see a wide offering of merchandise the powers that be have deemed "non racist" and "non offensive". Also, there is a selection of Nazi memorabilia (medals, insignia etc.) you know, the ones who actually committed genocide. This is nothing more than appeasement to the yet another libtard "victim" group. Once an inch is given, a mile will be taken. How long will it be before it's the US flag being challenged because slave ships sailed under it. Unless this cancer of liberalism is cut out, probably sooner than you think....

[&o]

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

How long will it be before it's the US flag being challenged because slave ships sailed under it.

Did that flag have 50 stars?

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

How long will it be before it's the US flag being challenged because slave ships sailed under it.

Did that flag have 50 stars?

You think it will matter to them?

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

ORIGINAL: Kriegspieler16

How long will it be before it's the US flag being challenged because slave ships sailed under it.

Did that flag have 50 stars?

You think it will matter to them?

warspite1

Exactly - it's still the Stars and Stripes and the flag of the United States. The number of states at the time means nothing.

I am skating on thin ice here over a pond of politics but I really believe
this whole PC/Nasty Flag issue is a smokescreen to cover the inability of
Americans to deal with some key political issues. When ever something like
this comes up somebody always tries really hard to derail the conversation
into irrelevancy so that a rapid return to the status quo ante is
achieved. I live in redneck Canada which some believe to be an offshoot of
Texas or Oklahoma. This flag is not uncommonly displayed but you can bet
that around here it is still a flag of rebellion not a reflection on southern pride
or Lynyrd Skynyrd fandom (southern culture). Those who display it with pride
generally associate it with the much less savoury things it represents and revel
in it, all the while denying its meaning to them in true Canadian fashion.
Just my U$D 0.21 worth.

Well its most interesting to hear from North Americans and northern and Southern Americans in particular because for me, as an Englishman, I have no real understanding of the extent to which the flag is used for "pride and culture" purposes as opposed to a belief in the values of the south (in terms of the slavery issue).

To me, the flag is inoffensive as it simply conjures up memories of the Dukes of Hazzard (and Daisy Duke for some reason), my Britain's Civil War figures and various things I associate with the south and which I have gleaned from TV/books - Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, Gone With The Wind etc.

It is a "problem" for the United States to work through in that regard. As for the flag and wargaming - well my position has already been stated and would only change if it was proved that there is something more sinister in the promotion of that flag vis-a-vis racial inequality.

Would love to hear from Americans on this wider issue. For example is there a call to change the state flag that incorporates it? Should there be? What do Americans generally think when they see the flag displayed on car bumpers? Is it offensive to some? That kind of thing?

Actually Warspite, since the whole cleansing of the flag started, I've seen the flag more than I ever remember. Perhaps its always been that way and I just payed it no mind. But it could be that people are rebelling (pardon the pun) against the government and many business caving to the demands of a vocal minority.

ORIGINAL: warspite1
To me, the flag is inoffensive as it simply conjures up memories of the Dukes of Hazzard (and Daisy Duke for some reason)

Why?



The flag doesn't offend me. But I can why it offend many others.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/a-week-t ... 28231.html

Just for this part: And how better to honor “liberty” than to finally remove, from public buildings and grounds, the symbol of a power that oppressed and enslaved the ancestors of millions of Americans?

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: warspite1
To me, the flag is inoffensive as it simply conjures up memories of the Dukes of Hazzard (and Daisy Duke for some reason)

Why?

warspite1

Not sure. I was only just into my teens - formative years and all that - and things seemed to be happening. Daisy Dukes legs and cropped pants just seemed a whole lot more interesting than say learning school stuff..... Why? I dunno, it's a complete mystery to me....