Matrix Games Forums

Just been doing some more thinking on Stelteck's ideas for the Battle for Moscow and I thought it might be worth sharing with you. It is meant as an extension and clarification of those ideas, but also if you think one of these is wrong an opportunity to correct it early on.

1. Generally after Leningrad we should expect the army group boundary of North to go south and of South to go North to allow Centre to concentrate as much as possible. However Panzer Groups will frequently be outside the boundary of their own army group. And frequently operating closely with infantry of a different army group. In the case of any contribution by 1st Panzer Group to Moscow probably this will always be so. There is no expectation that 4th Panzer Group will have the northernmost motorised units or vice versa for 1st Panzer Group South.
2. Possibly there will be more occasions when it makes sense to reassign units between Panzer groups - if so this will be arranged between Army Group commanders themselves.
3. A consequence of 1&2 is that army group commanders will have to rely more on their experience to anticipate how others will act. And need to ask questions and message each other more during turns.
4. This is a particularly big ask for Army Group South as they will have a front going from the Black Sea to as close to Moscow as they can get. Plus still trying to get targets like Stalino. So Army Group South will probably have the smallest amount of forces committed to Moscow.
5. This does not mean do not try to encircle and destroy units no matter how far from Moscow or your axis of attack. Any elimination of units will need to be covered by Soviet units from elsewhere that has a knock on effect on the defences of Moscow.
6. It may still be worth executing a crossing, or encircling, of the Volkhov. Without it the Finns will still be locked in by 3 hexes of the Janisjarvi and 6 hexes or so of the Volkhov. Anything that can allow the Finns to break in to open play East of the Volkhov will have a similar knock on effect on Moscow.

My expectation of how what ennemy will do next turn :

- AGN not something special. Maybe the front will be depleted to send troops elsewhere as it is not realistic to hold leningrad for them and after that there is not really interesting cities to defend north.

- AGC will break all my pockets and i expect hard fight to restore them. Still the troops i encercled this turn are doomed, but it will probably need 2 more turns to make them surrender. Infantry is here and will clean this.

- AGS : Really No idea. Looks like the ennemy have no real reserve in the area according to air report.

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
- AGS : Really No idea. Looks like the ennemy have no real reserve in the area according to air report.

probably the more important report will be the weather one!

In other circumstances there would at least be a choice of railing in more units to the local area rather than more evac or use of rail cap elsewhere. But for a lot of the area south of and West of Stalino there is not even the possibility of railing anything in. Most of the ports are too damaged for shipping too.

In Praise of the Bicycle as a weapon of war!

The bicycle is an underappreciated weapon of war.

The Finns destroyed the Soviets in 1940 using bicycles. On D-Day 6th June 1944 some of the first troops landed were commandos on bicycles tasked with racing forward to the airborne troops.



So who will get to use the elite bicycle recon battalion?

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
So who will get to use the elite bicycle recon battalion?

Looks like Stelteck is our blitzkrieg on bicycles commander! [:)]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
So who will get to use the elite bicycle recon battalion?

Looks like Stelteck is our blitzkrieg on bicycles commander! [:)]

0.7 combat value, an elite unit indeed !!

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
So who will get to use the elite bicycle recon battalion?

Looks like Stelteck is our blitzkrieg on bicycles commander! [:)]

0.7 combat value, an elite unit indeed !!

For only 900 men - mobile, mountain trained and zero fuel consumption - a bargain!

Stuka siren intensifies

Panzers rumble louder

Bicycle bells start chiming

I know which one is the most intimidating...do you?

It is not the bicycle, it is the big, fat tank who drag them !!!

[:D][:D][:D]
[&o][&o][&o]

Two knock out responses!

Turn 5 Team

the dude357 joined us in turn 5 as our new South commander

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Congratulation new commander !!! i've just finishing stealing all support units, supplies and spare from south to put them safe in the army group center, then i release the army group south for you.

Army group south remind me of Napoleon, which took command of the italian French army in 1796, which was the worst and less supplied french army either at the time and took it to greatness.

What would a Napoleon do if he joined us now? Kharkov in three turns? Rostov in six turns? Go to Italy? Clearly impossible for an ordinary WitE player - but Stelteck sets a high bar for team mates! [:)]

[This was originally post 98]

Turn 5 23-July-1941 Axis North



The Pskow line is history and the motorised units do not wait for infantry in the North - they just keep going! Units reach Lake Ilmen and threaten the outskirts of Novgorod. Soviet preparations for a defence of the Luga look incomplete. In the Baltics no Soviet units are being encountered. Apart from a lot of reconnaisance there is no soviet air activity, manual or automatic, either in the Soviet phase the previous turn or during the Axis phase this turn.

Belatedly the Soviets are preparing lines on the Janisjarvi in Karelia.


[This was originally post 71]

Special Delivery for Stelteck

Brought to your front line HQ door by the men of FBD3 who are reporting for duty to AGC after their secondment to OKH as their part of the whole team rail network is complete.



The note with the consignment reads

Sender: Olga - yes it's me! Your favourite Berlin cabaret artiste!
Message: Waiting for you at Moulin Rouge...

[above was originally post 92]

And so the AAR continues ...

Turn 5 23-July-1941 Axis Centre

Army Group South Turn 5:

The pocket was cleared near Vinnitsa to make a smoother infantry march across Ukraine. Soviets appear to be in total withdrawal to the Dnepr for a defensive position. Air recon this turn showed a vast practically empty space stretching all the way to the Dnepr.

I saw an opportunity to hit Kiev while it was still being fortified and the Soviet commander only left 2 infantry divisions defending it. I had to use panzers but they got the job done. This is probably a turn or two earlier then the Soviets expected. Every victory point counts.

The Soviets are building a defensive position at Cherkassy with its favorable terrain. I am thinking this was in anticipation of a Kiev encirclement, but with Kiev captured I am unsure if they will continue to defend this area and may withdraw east of the Dnepr. If they stay they are trying to delay an advance to Poltova - Kharkov.

Further south a "recon in force" was conducted and was able to raid Kirovograd and took all of its industry. Pressure on Krivoi Rog next turn, and Dnepropetrovsk & Zaporozhye a turn or two later.

Romanians and 11th Army continue on the march eastwards, Odessa looks undefended and further east a small Soviet presence near Nikolaev that will probably end up withdrawing.

AGS Northern Boundary


AGS Southern Boundary

Turn 5 23-July-1941 Air War

By request air losses are being presented as since last turn rather than during Axis turn. Soviet losses of key air types such as modern fighters/fighter bombers, very long range bombers, and long range recon continue to outstrip their production.



This turn sees the start of our strategic bombing campaign. Using our tactics to economise on logisitics for our air forces it now does make sense to bomb cities.



Although the damage is very slight, these are expanding factories which have a long way to go before reaching their full capacity. The damage at the Il-2 factories at Voronezh for instance would mean, even if production was never halted by the damage, 90 Il-2s will now never be built due to delayed expansion. The bombing of the T-34 factory at Kharkhov will similarly mean a number of tanks will never be built due to delayed expansion - although the effect may be delayed by the Soviet plans for its evacuation.



An unusually high damage at Ivanovo. But for the most part it will take many turns of consistent effort before the campaign bears fruit.



Taganrog also gets an unusually high damage level for the first turn of bombing

The Soviets could stop this cold if they wanted too pretty easy, question is will they do it.

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
The Soviets could stop this cold if they wanted too pretty easy, question is will they do it.

Follow this thread and see! [;)]

Turn 5 Allocations

For information only - team allocations and submissions for turn 5 attached.

Also click the following links for

https://i.imgur.com/eNuZcCe.png https://i.imgur.com/cCaSpaH.png command boundaries
https://i.imgur.com/YIRYsaT.png ground losses

Turn 6 24-July-1941 Axis North

Unfortunately the surrounded Soviets decided not to calmly wait for their extermination - so normal service had to be delayed for a turn. Team orders are for the North-Centre boundary to turn sharply NorthEastwards (blue line) - we are making Leningrad a priority.



Turn 6 30-July-1941 Axis North

Our troops start to arrive on the Luga line in force.



The Janisjarvi line holds



[This was originally post 101]
[The original post 98 has been moved to post 91]

Turn 6 30-July-1941 Axis Centre

Centre goes first this turn. The frontage of Centre is expanding to the north and south, units and air support are being prioritised to the North, and two AGC panzer corps are still on loan to neighbouring commands. But the centre offensive keeps going forward.

Turn 6 Army Group South

6th Army catches up to Kiev and lines up right across the Dnepr from Soviet forces. The Soviet defensive position along the Dnepr is formidable but will it hold?

Soviet forces create a hasty defensive position behind a minor river stretching north of Nikolaev. This is totally breached by 1st PzG and Krivoi Rog is sacked with all its industry. This breach also completely outflanks and threatens the entire Soviet line there with a single envelopment. The hole is blown so wide that 1st PzG and its attached panzer corps from AGC are able to encircle several Soviet divisions and cross the Dnepr, outflanking the entire defensive position there as well. This puts Soviet forces along the Dnepr in a perilous position and makes the panzers within striking distance of Poltava and Kharkov.

AGS Northern Boundary


AGS Southern Boundary

A long march east for the infantry. 17th, 11th, and Romanian armies continue eastward.