RE: Witness to World War 2.
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:26 pm
End of Turn 2. Nov/Dec 1939. CW/French Convoys and Production.


What's your Strategy?
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If the Germans adopted this plan, and the turn ended, they would be in for a very nasty surprise when the 2nd BEF returned to base to Rotterdam during the Return to Base step, which is before the Conquest step.ORIGINAL: rkr1958
The Phoney War.
(03)JF40. The axis win the initiative and elect to move second.
(03)JF40. Allied #1.
The British 2nd BEF, which was returned to base (in England) at the conclusion of last turn, is put back to sea on transports in the North Sea.
(03)JF40. Axis #4.
OKW has, however, pointed out a third option that guarantees Rotterdam which is to invade and conquer Holland on the last impulse of the turn. If this is achieved then all of Holland, including Rotterdam, will surrender to Germans during the conquest phase at the end of the turn. Though still unoccupied if the allies move first next turn, the only means for the English to capture Rotterdam is through amphibious invasion. Since the only amphibious capability the Brits would (currently) have is the 2nd Inf division, any attempt to do so would be suicide since the 2nd division would be heavily outnumber by 4 regiments (i.e., notionals) that Germany would have be able to "move" in during last turn's surrender of Holland.
So, option 3 to take Holland and secure Rotterdam is a "sure thing" except for one major flaw, no matter the impulse if any action other that a pass is taken, there's a chance that the turn will continue. For example, for this current impulse (axis #10), there's "only" a 40% chance that the turn will end. This means that if the Germans were to invade Holland this impulse that there's a 60% chance that the Brits would be able to occupy Rotterdam in force. 60% by any reasonable standard is too high of a risk to invade Holland this impulse.
However, if the axis were to get another impulse this turn, max probability=0.6*0.3=0.18 and min probability=0.6*0.1=0.06, and if only Germany took a non-pass option then there would be a 90% chance that the turn would end on that impulse. So to Thus, there's somewhere between 6 to 18% chance that Germany will get another impulse. And if they do, there's a 90% that they can conquer Holland and secure Rotterdam this impulse.
Whether or not that 90% is acceptable, we'll never know. The turn ended at the conclusion of this impulse. And with the II FRJ corps available to Germany next turn, option 3 for the conquest of Holland is now pretty much mute.
Excellent point! Didn't think that through. Though, this would put a significant portion of Great Britain's sea lift within port-strike distance of German bombers.ORIGINAL: Courtenay
If the Germans adopted this plan, and the turn ended, they would be in for a very nasty surprise when the 2nd BEF returned to base to Rotterdam during the Return to Base step, which is before the Conquest step.ORIGINAL: rkr1958
The Phoney War.
(03)JF40. The axis win the initiative and elect to move second.
(03)JF40. Allied #1.
The British 2nd BEF, which was returned to base (in England) at the conclusion of last turn, is put back to sea on transports in the North Sea.
(03)JF40. Axis #4.
OKW has, however, pointed out a third option that guarantees Rotterdam which is to invade and conquer Holland on the last impulse of the turn. If this is achieved then all of Holland, including Rotterdam, will surrender to Germans during the conquest phase at the end of the turn. Though still unoccupied if the allies move first next turn, the only means for the English to capture Rotterdam is through amphibious invasion. Since the only amphibious capability the Brits would (currently) have is the 2nd Inf division, any attempt to do so would be suicide since the 2nd division would be heavily outnumber by 4 regiments (i.e., notionals) that Germany would have be able to "move" in during last turn's surrender of Holland.
So, option 3 to take Holland and secure Rotterdam is a "sure thing" except for one major flaw, no matter the impulse if any action other that a pass is taken, there's a chance that the turn will continue. For example, for this current impulse (axis #10), there's "only" a 40% chance that the turn will end. This means that if the Germans were to invade Holland this impulse that there's a 60% chance that the Brits would be able to occupy Rotterdam in force. 60% by any reasonable standard is too high of a risk to invade Holland this impulse.
However, if the axis were to get another impulse this turn, max probability=0.6*0.3=0.18 and min probability=0.6*0.1=0.06, and if only Germany took a non-pass option then there would be a 90% chance that the turn would end on that impulse. So to Thus, there's somewhere between 6 to 18% chance that Germany will get another impulse. And if they do, there's a 90% that they can conquer Holland and secure Rotterdam this impulse.
Whether or not that 90% is acceptable, we'll never know. The turn ended at the conclusion of this impulse. And with the II FRJ corps available to Germany next turn, option 3 for the conquest of Holland is now pretty much mute.
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Excellent point! Didn't think that through. Though, this would put a significant portion of Great Britain's sea lift within port-strike distance of German bombers.ORIGINAL: Courtenay
If the Germans adopted this plan, and the turn ended, they would be in for a very nasty surprise when the 2nd BEF returned to base to Rotterdam during the Return to Base step, which is before the Conquest step.ORIGINAL: rkr1958
The Phoney War.
(03)JF40. The axis win the initiative and elect to move second.
(03)JF40. Allied #1.
The British 2nd BEF, which was returned to base (in England) at the conclusion of last turn, is put back to sea on transports in the North Sea.
(03)JF40. Axis #4.
OKW has, however, pointed out a third option that guarantees Rotterdam which is to invade and conquer Holland on the last impulse of the turn. If this is achieved then all of Holland, including Rotterdam, will surrender to Germans during the conquest phase at the end of the turn. Though still unoccupied if the allies move first next turn, the only means for the English to capture Rotterdam is through amphibious invasion. Since the only amphibious capability the Brits would (currently) have is the 2nd Inf division, any attempt to do so would be suicide since the 2nd division would be heavily outnumber by 4 regiments (i.e., notionals) that Germany would have be able to "move" in during last turn's surrender of Holland.
So, option 3 to take Holland and secure Rotterdam is a "sure thing" except for one major flaw, no matter the impulse if any action other that a pass is taken, there's a chance that the turn will continue. For example, for this current impulse (axis #10), there's "only" a 40% chance that the turn will end. This means that if the Germans were to invade Holland this impulse that there's a 60% chance that the Brits would be able to occupy Rotterdam in force. 60% by any reasonable standard is too high of a risk to invade Holland this impulse.
However, if the axis were to get another impulse this turn, max probability=0.6*0.3=0.18 and min probability=0.6*0.1=0.06, and if only Germany took a non-pass option then there would be a 90% chance that the turn would end on that impulse. So to Thus, there's somewhere between 6 to 18% chance that Germany will get another impulse. And if they do, there's a 90% that they can conquer Holland and secure Rotterdam this impulse.
Whether or not that 90% is acceptable, we'll never know. The turn ended at the conclusion of this impulse. And with the II FRJ corps available to Germany next turn, option 3 for the conquest of Holland is now pretty much mute.
Yes. That would be too much firepower for the Luftwaffe to contend with and for the Germans to count on as a threat to deter the Brits from using this tactic. Thanks to you and Courtenay pointing out the flaw in my thinking there. That would have been a real surprise to get hit with this, RTB tactic, when not expecting it. Now, that I'm aware of it I can "better", more correctly, evaluate the risk of a late turn invasion.ORIGINAL: Centuur
ORIGINAL: rkr1958
Excellent point! Didn't think that through. Though, this would put a significant portion of Great Britain's sea lift within port-strike distance of German bombers.ORIGINAL: Courtenay
If the Germans adopted this plan, and the turn ended, they would be in for a very nasty surprise when the 2nd BEF returned to base to Rotterdam during the Return to Base step, which is before the Conquest step.
True, but Rotterdam is a very good hex to defend for the CW. Put a couple of BB's and cruisers with the TRS to provide AA fire and to absorp losses. And if there is a FTR in the North Sea, rebase it into Rotterdam too...
We are assuming that Belgium is neutral. Holding Rotterdam prevents Brussels being ZOCed out in one impulse. And until Germany DOWs Belgium, Rotterdam is completely behind a river. Holding Rotterdam lets the Allies grab the Dyle line, which can really slow down the German advance, and/or force the use of an O-chit to crack it.ORIGINAL: ssiviour
Each to their own opinion, but I don't consider Rotterdam a very good Hex to defend at all. Wrong side of the River and at the Extremes of CW FTR range. A determined German combinimg AC and Subs backed up with strong ART can make it down right costly for precious few CW units.
Antwerp, however, is far Superior.
