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T003 Soviet Strategy discussion

timmyab26.04.2020
Something I noticed in the South is that one of our cav divs can most likely displace one of their pz corp hq with a long range raid. Unfortunately it's one of our best cav divs and it's TOE is over 90, but it's the sort of thing that I would do. It would probably disable one of their pz corps next week, it would place a cav div in their rear next week that they would have to deal with (possibly routing it) and most importantly it's aggressive. They will think twice in future about leaving their flanks unguarded.

timmyab26.04.2020
There's another advantage. It will slow down the advance of 11th army next week.

Shaggy26.04.2020
@timmyab
I did not understand at all. Where did you see the opportunity to push the headquarters?
I do not observe such opportunities. All headquarters are located deep in the rear in order to be able to replace them with the cavalry division.

timmyab26.04.2020
Hold on I'll show you. I think it will work but I haven't tested it. I consider that cheating, but my experience tells me that it will work.

The area has been reconned, but it may have missed something.
My guess is there's nothing there. If there is the cav can back out again towards Nikoleav.
There's also a chance that the pz corp HQ is covered but again experience says probably not.
Would advise further recon if you intend to carry it out.

T003 Soviet Strategy discussion

Shaggy26.04.2020
And I am also in a hurry to recall that the loss of cavalry units leads to execution.
Especially so Elite.



timmyab26.04.2020
lol. You'll get shot but so will the Axis AGS commander so we'll be even

Shaggy26.04.2020
Of course it looks super, but it contradicts the orders of the high command.
It also gives away parts all the more so good.
Before that, I didn’t unblock at the price of the infantry division of the Lviv pocket. So it would be foolish to abandon this line for the sake of moving the headquarters. Moreover, generally speaking, there are home party rules where suicidal sea landings to headquarters are prohibited. Personally, I regard the return of such a valuable part as a suicidal landing.
It is likely that this will not affect the movement of the tank units too much, while the Romanian units will surround and destroy such a valuable unit.

Goodbyebluesky26.04.2020
I have to say that I value disrupting the enemies timetable over saving a single decision. It creates uncertainty and every bit of that leads to future mistakes
suddenly that attack that you planned last turn is not feasible. Because 1 of the 2 Pz Corps cant participate. So you wait and dont know what to do. It spirals away from you

Alexey26.04.2020
Moment

Shaggy26.04.2020
If the game is already counted so that every time people do the same thing, then what's the point of playing? Like who is lucky with a die roll more?

timmyab26.04.2020
You do your thing Shaggy. It's only an observation from me.

Alexey26.04.2020
Friends! It’s good that we started talking about it.
Regarding the regulation and predetermined actions. Indeed, the actions in the first moves are predetermined.
Like the beginning of a chess game, where the reaction to any move is known in advance.
But then the tree of events branches and unpredictable creativity begins.

In WITE this is the 12-13th move - before the second wave of Russian mobilization arrives.
That is why my orders the first moves - do not attack, do not bomb, do nothing .....
Because by the time the unknown events begin, I must let you down with full troops, five cavalry armies, two mechanized armies, seven armies of special strength and more something.
Therefore, the first 12-14 moves I work as the Big Boss. But then you will start to work and take Berlin.
And it is important that by this moment you are not with .... in your hands.

About the headquarters attack. It is very interesting.
There are three corps = 9 TD. If we turn off three, there will be 6.
6 TDs with 20-25 MP The Dnieper will not break through! A little will pass along the Dnieper.

@Shaggy, then our defense plan is real. You can safely put troops! And second, maybe you don’t have to leave Kiev? Need to think.....
I have not seen. Thank @Goodbyebluesky . I expect such clues from you.
@Shaggy So this has to be done. The cavalry attacks the headquarters.
The Dnieper section from Cherkasy to Kiev can not be left.
If the tanks are turned back and crossed west of Cherkasy, then this will be a great stupidity and our luck.

ORIGINAL: sil01

T003 Soviet

And yes, the headquarters of the Central Front had to put things in order.
Commander replaced.

Poor Pavlov. But I guess it saves on the paperwork.

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: sil01

T003 Soviet

And yes, the headquarters of the Central Front had to put things in order.
Commander replaced.

Poor Pavlov. But I guess it saves on the paperwork.

That's what Pavlov gets for working with saliva and dogs. [:D]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: sil01

T003 Soviet

And yes, the headquarters of the Central Front had to put things in order.
Commander replaced.

Poor Pavlov. But I guess it saves on the paperwork.

That's what Pavlov gets for working with saliva and dogs. [:D]

Someone had better tell one NKVD guard he is about to get his hand badly shot up!

The cavalry raid to displace the Panzer HQ was quite an interesting move. It was lucky for the Soviets that the cavalry got full MP (22) otherwise it couldn't have done it as it needed exactly 22 MP for the move. I had assumed it would have a bit more fatigue and therefore not gotten full MP.

That being said, whether it was worth it, I'm not sure. It did cause one of the panzer corps to not move that turn as they then had very limited fuel but allowed that panzer corps to then have more MP the following turn plus sacrificed probably the best cavalry unit in the entire Soviet army. It would be interesting to know whether the Soviets afterwards think it was worth it or regret the decision?

On the whole I'd say it's worthwhile. Shame it's such a good division though.

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Someone had better tell one NKVD guard he is about to get his hand badly shot up!

I thought the same thing. Clearly not a real soldier. It reminds me of a scene in Casino where Joe Pesci aims a gun at his own arm (via somebody's head of course).

T003 Soviet North sector order 1

T003 Soviet North sector order 2

T003 Soviet Centr sector order 1

T003 Soviet Centr sector order 2

T003 Soviet South sector order 1

T003 Soviet Centr sector order 2

T003 Soviet. South Commander "Shaggy" point of view
I'll go with a trump card. This is what the strategic situation at the beginning
of the course looked like. A serious gap is visible between the German infantry line and German tanks.
As already mentioned, it was noted that it was possible to slow the advance of
German tanks using this same gap. Losing such a powerful cavalry division is like a stab in my heart,
but I am only a commander and follow the orders of the General Staff, and if you look soberly,
the strength of the Soviet cavalry divisions will begin to fall very soon, a change to the TOE which
is hardly pulling into the division. And it’s rather just a brigade on steroids, but still the heart is bleeding.
And she would certainly have found a place on such a vast front.

T003 Soviet. South Commander "Shaggy" point of view
I marked the places of potential bridgeheads on the Dnieper. The first and third,
I assessed as unlikely, as very likely, but the main strategic success in the long term
could be associated with the early fall of Dnepropetrovsk. It seems to me that the German players are quite aware
of this and want to prevent the economic power of the Soviet Union in 42-43 years. Therefore, the industrial
centers of the South will be in the very first priority if the rapid crossing of the Dnieper does not become a reality.

T003 Soviet. South Commander "Shaggy" point of view
From the side of the southwestern front, the front line from a frontal attack is
obviously being rounded up and an attempt is made to bypass and stretch the troops.
Naturally, there is simply no strength and means to keep everything;
for this reason, the weakening of the most northern sectors is proceeding in order
to strengthen the threatened places and directions.

I also note that the 16th motorized division went to the trick that it created
a move back. And although of course, in general, this affects the situation weakly.
All the same, this is the spraying of mobile compounds that in the next turn will
not be able to act all together to destroy a single target.

T003 Soviet. South Commander "Shaggy" point of view
Let's talk about the situation in the Lviv pocket.
The active actions of the Soviet troops surrounded the Hungarian garrison unit.
Also, motorized rifle Hungarian brigades that were cut off from the railway
tracks were driven into the mountains in opposition, as a result of which they
probably will not be at the front soon.

The entire offensive in the southern sector of the Soviet-German front cost 22 two destroyed tanks,
8 near Cherkasy, 13 in the battles for Kirovgrad, 1 in the Lvov pocket.
In the South, primacy on victories among the fronts is still preserved.

Telemecus, ex acting Axis Chief of Staff
Well it was like this - they came in through the door in the morning without bothering to knock. They put a luger on the table with a bottle of schnapps. Or, they said, you can quietly retire .....

From turn 004 Teun returned from setting up their new HQ to take full command as Chief of Staff.

I did last longer than some Game of Corona commanders, but not as much as some in the other Game...

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Telemecus, ex acting Axis Chief of Staff
Well it was like this - they came in through the door in the morning without bothering to knock. They put a luger on the table with a bottle of schnapps. Or, they said, you can quietly retire .....

From turn 004 Teun returned from setting up their new HQ to take full command as Chief of Staff.

I did last longer than some Game of Corona commanders, but not as much as some in the other Game...

Sean Bean has announced that he will no longer accept roles in which he, umm, expires. Maybe you should follow suit?

Turn 4 Axis:

Looks like not all is well in the Air

To-Do List for turn 4:

1.Not strat bombing or mass fighter sweeps this turn, Only airbase bombing when feasible
2.Ground bombing, recon and support are allowed for the Commanders but don't rack up huge amounts of fatigue
3.Send airgroups above 20 fatigue to NR
4.More bombers to South and Center, more fighter to North
5.Assign AA to the 3 Air HQs in North (Luftflotte 1, Fliegerkorps 8, Fliegerkorps 1)
6.Switch all Airgroups to Manual upgrades Except:
7.Switch Stab/JG.54 and Stab/JG.52 to BF-109-F4 per Upgrade only
8.Fix AV overload
9.Switch 2 He 111H4 groups to JU-86E-2
10.Rail the Hungarian, Slovakian and Finnish Airbases/Forces into position
11.Defensive air mindset North, aggressive Center, to be determined in South

Needed AP 2

My first conclusion at the time is, that I have been driving the Fighters too hard and that the Soviets overcame them through force concentration in the North, where most of their air is still. (At this time we weren't aware of the intercept bugs existence.
Hence some countermeasures. 1,2 and 3 are too manage and reduce fatigue better. While point 5 will add 4 AA SU's to each Air HQ's which will then be placed on the same hex as airbases. Flak might have been nerfed, but it should
still have some effect right ?

We also had a surprisingly long discussion on 9. JU86E-2s are bad, but putting them in withdrawing airgroups to free up better level bombers is better.

The rest is generic reorganization stuff, except 11. Since the Soviets seem to concentrate their Airforce and bombings to the North at the moment, having seems like it would counteract it somewhat. Meanwhile Center and South are relatively safe for bombing and ground support.

Still the Luftwaffe is capable of striking back

Surprisingly this was accomplished by Fighter sweeps this time. While the initial plan was to avoid them, some test sweeps near Soviet airbases showed promise and so I went with what works.


We are reaching recon levels that shouldn't be possible [X(]. At the end the air results were starting to glitch up because of how many missions had been done. Good thing recon escort is off.

Just to show you what the glitch would look like:

The end results are still normal, but the plane numbers get wack.