Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:18 pm**

Ran my first dummy turn.

Ok results...was able to take Wake Island with a Fast Transport magic TF from Pescadores easily. I was worried about this.

Trying to take Rabaul very quickly is next on the list, need to get there before Lady Lex shows up or Australian cruisers.

Only damaged Boise and Marblehead, Houston untouched so need to work on that. Would like to take Jolo, and need to work on that.

Need to tune the Singapore area forces a bit. 31 buffaloes destroyed so that is a pretty solid start. Hong Kong AA seems immune to first turn surprise. Was able to sink or heavily damage quite a few British CLs and destroyers.

Good damage at Luzon and the B17 bases.

Overall, very promising for a quick grab of the Singapore and establishing a perimeter in the Pacific.

Really need to destroy Force Z on turn one... or at least heavily damage it. Kind of trading Pearl for them and a super fast conquest of Singapore....

No Mersing day 1, but will probably land at Kuantan. So Kuantan, Jolo, Wake, perhaps Billiton. I don't want to get too far forward where the Allies can really hit me with night bombardments etc.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:41 pm**

How about Manila subs ?

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:14 pm**

ORIGINAL: Evoken

How about Manila subs ?

Do you think they will be there in a no HR game?[8|] Lok did tell me he wasn't going to evacuate Pearl. Imagine getting a KB strike on all those BBs at sea with greatly reduced flak.

SS Salmon, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
xAP President Madison, Bomb hits 1
PT Q-113, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
PG Asheville, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Si Kiang, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS Seal, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Seadragon, Bomb hits 3, heavy damage
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Childs, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 1
xAK Capillo, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1
SS Searaven, Bomb hits 1
SS Seawolf, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DD Pillsbury, Bomb hits 1, on fire

SS Permit, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AM Quail, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Shark, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Don Jose, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AM Finch, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Sculpin, Bomb hits 1

SS Sturgeon, Bomb hits 1
PT-31, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS S-38, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Tarpon, Bomb hits 1
SS Sealion, Bomb hits 1
DD Pope, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AO Trinity, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Peary, Bomb hits 1
SS S-41, Bomb hits 1
AS Holland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Perch, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:45 pm**

Try it without the KB but use the Bettys and Nells at 1000 feet. [:D]

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:56 pm**

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Try it without the KB but use the Bettys and Nells at 1000 feet. [:D]

Don't forget "with torpedoes selected"

my 2 cents - double check that avg exp >70

if i understand correctly those 2 items will get you 800s

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:59 pm**

One of the areas I don't want to skimp on is AA. It all has a place to go from the get go. Especially the searchlight/radar equipped versions. They have to land at Miri asap, really any target for early night bombing.

There's an argument to be made for leaving Miri & Palembang until all the nearby airbases in the DEI are controlled by Japan.

Impossible for the Allies to bomb them if they're still in Allied hands.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:23 pm**

I am going to ask Lok about this....no HR is one thing, exploits are another and the 1000 foot torpedo selection is an exploit. I am not comfortable going there, tbh.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:24 pm**

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

One of the areas I don't want to skimp on is AA. It all has a place to go from the get go. Especially the searchlight/radar equipped versions. They have to land at Miri asap, really any target for early night bombing.

There's an argument to be made for leaving Miri & Palembang until all the nearby airbases in the DEI are controlled by Japan.

Impossible for the Allies to bomb them if they're still in Allied hands.

Absolutely won't take them till I can protect them with NF of some flavor and flak that will fire at night.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:35 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am going to ask Lok about this....no HR is one thing, exploits are another and the 1000 foot torpedo selection is an exploit. I am not comfortable going there, tbh.

If there are no torpedoes with any HQ in range, then the default is the normal bomb load.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:02 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am going to ask Lok about this....no HR is one thing, exploits are another and the 1000 foot torpedo selection is an exploit. I am not comfortable going there, tbh.

What exactly is the exploit here?

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fly torpedo bombers at 1000ft.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:03 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

One of the areas I don't want to skimp on is AA. It all has a place to go from the get go. Especially the searchlight/radar equipped versions. They have to land at Miri asap, really any target for early night bombing.

There's an argument to be made for leaving Miri & Palembang until all the nearby airbases in the DEI are controlled by Japan.

Impossible for the Allies to bomb them if they're still in Allied hands.

Absolutely won't take them till I can protect them with NF of some flavor and flak that will fire at night.

My thinking was basically leave them till last, taking them when there are no viable Allied bases left within range. In practical terms, that means leaving Miri until at least Java and most of the PI are cleared.

Palembang means Java and much of Sumatra.

That will have some wider ramifications so I can understand why you might not be keen on it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:17 pm**

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am going to ask Lok about this....no HR is one thing, exploits are another and the 1000 foot torpedo selection is an exploit. I am not comfortable going there, tbh.

What exactly is the exploit here?

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fly torpedo bombers at 1000ft.

This is my understanding which might be flawed.

A bomber, that isn't an assault bomber, is penalized in its bomb load if it attacks at 1000 feet without torpedo (using bombs).

However, if you select use torpedoes, and have an HQa within range with torpedoes and proper supply, then the bomber will use its "full load" and not a penalized low altitude load if use torpedoes is toggled.

I have not tested it, but I am sure RangerJoe can correct me.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:19 pm**

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

There's an argument to be made for leaving Miri & Palembang until all the nearby airbases in the DEI are controlled by Japan.

Impossible for the Allies to bomb them if they're still in Allied hands.

Absolutely won't take them till I can protect them with NF of some flavor and flak that will fire at night.

My thinking was basically leave them till last, taking them when there are no viable Allied bases left within range. In practical terms, that means leaving Miri until at least Java and most of the PI are cleared.

Palembang means Java and much of Sumatra.

That will have some wider ramifications so I can understand why you might not be keen on it.

Oooh, yeah, not too keen on waiting that long.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:27 pm**

Well, I bounced it off Lok, and he is totally unconcerned and true to his no HR leanings.

In fact he would prefer a Manila KB strike. [:)]

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:44 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am going to ask Lok about this....no HR is one thing, exploits are another and the 1000 foot torpedo selection is an exploit. I am not comfortable going there, tbh.

What exactly is the exploit here?

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fly torpedo bombers at 1000ft.

This is my understanding which might be flawed.

A bomber, that isn't an assault bomber, is penalized in its bomb load if it attacks at 1000 feet without torpedo (using bombs).

However, if you select use torpedoes, and have an HQa within range with torpedoes and proper supply, then the bomber will use its "full load" and not a penalized low altitude load if use torpedoes is toggled.

I have not tested it, but I am sure RangerJoe can correct me.

By "full load", do you mean torpedoes?

If so, that does not strike me as an exploit in any way.

Such an attack would use the NavT skill and not LowN, suggesting a pretty clear dinsction between a LowN attack with bombs and a torpedo attack.

Plus there's the tactical considerations where you would want torpedo bombers flying at wavetop height to avoid CAP and radar.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:45 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Well, I bounced it off Lok, and he is totally unconcerned and true to his no HR leanings.

In fact he would prefer a Manila KB strike. [:)]

He's a good sport. He weathered my many rants of the effectiveness of night bombing and endured many a brutal attack by supersized Jill squadrons.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:02 pm**

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

What exactly is the exploit here?

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fly torpedo bombers at 1000ft.

This is my understanding which might be flawed.

A bomber, that isn't an assault bomber, is penalized in its bomb load if it attacks at 1000 feet without torpedo (using bombs).

However, if you select use torpedoes, and have an HQa within range with torpedoes and proper supply, then the bomber will use its "full load" and not a penalized low altitude load if use torpedoes is toggled.

I have not tested it, but I am sure RangerJoe can correct me.

By "full load", do you mean torpedoes?

Port strike. No a full bomb load, not the reduced 1000 foot bomb load. I believe only torpedoes can be used on port strikes at Pearl and on Dec 7th if you pass some checks.

Perhaps I am wrong and it is all works as designed.

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:39 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I am going to ask Lok about this....no HR is one thing, exploits are another and the 1000 foot torpedo selection is an exploit. I am not comfortable going there, tbh.

What exactly is the exploit here?

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fly torpedo bombers at 1000ft.

This is my understanding which might be flawed.

A bomber, that isn't an assault bomber, is penalized in its bomb load if it attacks at 1000 feet without torpedo (using bombs).

However, if you select use torpedoes, and have an HQa within range with torpedoes and proper supply, then the bomber will use its "full load" and not a penalized low altitude load if use torpedoes is toggled.

I have not tested it, but I am sure RangerJoe can correct me.

I redid the initial turn on my current game. No previous bombing of Manila. The fighters are escort, although putting them on port attack at 1000 or 100 feet is also an option. This was in the afternoon as they were set to "Naval" and "Port" with the target of "Manila." I sent the Sallies to Wenchow although including them at a lower altitude nut not 1000 feet would also be beneficial.

Afternoon Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 46
G3M2 Nell x 36
G4M1 Betty x 54

Allied aircraft
P-35A x 1
P-40B Warhawk x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Pike, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
PT Q-112, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AS Canopus, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Si Kiang, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 1
AS Holland, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS S-38, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Anakan, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PT-32, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Stingray, Bomb hits 1
DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AM Finch, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage Later sank.
SS Sealion, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AVD Childs, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS Searaven, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Sturgeon, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Permit, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
AV Langley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
SS S-41, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAP President Madison, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Yu Sang, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 2 (lost 142 fuel)

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 1000 feet (Takao Ku K-1 / 23rd Air Flotilla)
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
27 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 1000 feet (Takao Ku K-1 Det / 23rd Air Flotilla)
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
27 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 1000 feet (1st Ku K-1 / 21st Air Flotilla)
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 1000 feet (1st Ku K-1 Det / 21st Air Flotilla)
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

I wonder if using the Kates that use bombs at 1000 feet would be a good option. If you notice, some subs took more than one hit which is a waste. Oh well, I let a lot of things go to waist. [8|]

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:23 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Well, I bounced it off Lok, and he is totally unconcerned and true to his no HR leanings.

In fact he would prefer a Manila KB strike. [:)]

Death to Allied Pigboats ......

Posted: **Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:45 pm**

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

This is my understanding which might be flawed.

A bomber, that isn't an assault bomber, is penalized in its bomb load if it attacks at 1000 feet without torpedo (using bombs).

However, if you select use torpedoes, and have an HQa within range with torpedoes and proper supply, then the bomber will use its "full load" and not a penalized low altitude load if use torpedoes is toggled.

I have not tested it, but I am sure RangerJoe can correct me.

By "full load", do you mean torpedoes?

Port strike. No a full bomb load, not the reduced 1000 foot bomb load. I believe only torpedoes can be used on port strikes at Pearl and on Dec 7th if you pass some checks.

Perhaps I am wrong and it is all works as designed.

Sorry, I worded that poorly.

What is the specific bomb load that you're seeing?

Keep in mind that certain IJN planes have a chance to carry 800kg bombs on port attack pending a EXP check.

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