Page 5 of 19
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:13 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Won't lie, your method is clearly yielding superior results to the conventional opening. Whether that triggers a future patch or not remains to be seen.
Now the comment of 10 weeks of experienced pilots taken out might benefit from some context. With the conventional approach, you're still killing pilots. The question is that with this method, how many fewer losses do you take and how many more do you inflict? In my own HvH game, I suffered 1,795 pilots KIA with the conventional opening and considerably more Axis air losses. You had 2,383 Soviet KIA. That's +588 which is a little over two weeks worth of experienced pilots in the early training cycle.
The losses from turn 2 are interesting, but your opponent clearly is bold enough that the I-I53 biplanes along with their pilots are being thrown into the furnace. You may not see future opponents quite so eager to hurl these planes into battle.
Bottom line, no reason not to keep doing what you're doing until someone says you can't or they develop the more perfect mousetrap.
Thank you for the nice write up

I just don't know how much of a difference this will make over the long term game. A few extra turns worth of trained pilots on the first turn may end up being just a spit in the bucket over 200+ turns. I guess it all boils down to how the Soviet reacts to this. Time will tell.
Well there's a little more to it, and it's to your benefit. The definition of a trained Soviet pilot puts it in an experience range as low as 35. It's really way too low, IMHO, it should be around 50. Pilots with levels below 50 shoot down only a small fraction of Axis aircraft among those involved in A2A combat.
In your case, you aren't just eliminating trained pilots, you're eliminating pilots, among them many with 60+ experience who are a legitimate threat to your aircraft. Those kind of pilots don't appear again in numbers until 1944. So getting rid of a bigger group of them will save some of your own right from the beginning.
Thank you so much M60!!! This is really good to know!
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:15 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
ORIGINAL: Repsol
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Turn 2 End German turn
North
This is the best non "stab" fighter squadron I have at the moment. You can see the exp & Morale along with the aircraft kills for the unit.
Nice !
They start as 86(75)
Thats a decent increase in moral [:)] (unless the german moral-start is randomized and they started higher in this game).
Should not be randomized. So yes that is the gain so far. Although I would like to see experience in the 90's
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 2 End German Turn
Ground Losses

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:29 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 2 End German Turn
OOB

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:36 pm
by Jango32
I am curious, what air directives did you set up to get those Soviet pilot kills?
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:44 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
ORIGINAL: Jango32
I am curious, what air directives did you set up to get those Soviet pilot kills?
On the 1st turn???? I set up none.
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:50 pm
by Jango32
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: Jango32
I am curious, what air directives did you set up to get those Soviet pilot kills?
On the 1st turn???? I set up none.
So all three Luftflotte fighters automatically moved in to intercept and engage Soviet planes during the air execution phase with no AD requirement. I was under the impression that a ground support air directive was needed for that.
Interested to try this out against the AI. So all the Soviet pilot losses actually occurred in the ground phase, as your units were attacking Soviet divisions and taking airfields?
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:26 pm
by DeletedUser1769703214
ORIGINAL: Jango32
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
ORIGINAL: Jango32
I am curious, what air directives did you set up to get those Soviet pilot kills?
On the 1st turn???? I set up none.
So all three Luftflotte fighters automatically moved in to intercept and engage Soviet planes during the air execution phase with no AD requirement. I was under the impression that a ground support air directive was needed for that.
Interested to try this out against the AI. So all the Soviet pilot losses actually occurred in the ground phase, as your units were attacking Soviet divisions and taking airfields?
Correct, all the AC losses & pilot losses were in the ground phase except for the airfield bombing by the Hungarians and Rumanians in the Air execution phase I mentioned early in the AAR. Please note that if the Soviet side wasn't set up to fly Ground Support on Turn 1 this would not be possible(which is on by default all the time(which also could be the fix to give the Soviets a choice at the beginning of the game during setup if so desired)).
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:11 pm
by Repsol
[/quote]
Please note that if the Soviet side wasn't set up to fly Ground Support on Turn 1 this would not be possible(which is on by default all the time(which also could be the fix to give the Soviets a choice at the beginning of the game during setup if so desired)).
[/quote]
I belive most Soviet players would turn that off if they had a choise...1. They German player does the standard airfield attack and kills off the majority of the russian airsupport assets in the western part. Having put the Soviet air support to NO might not play that much of a difference. 2. The German player does NO airfield attack...Not flying any airsupport as the Soviets in this situation seems beneficial.
Therefor...As the Soviets it really seems to be of no great benefit to put airsupport ON regardless of what choise the German player goes with. The cost could be high though if he decides to commit them.
RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:00 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 Beginning of German Turn
Weather
Hmmmmmm

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:01 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 Beginning of German Turn
Air Losses during Soviet Phase

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:04 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 Beginning of Turn(before moves)
North

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:05 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 Beginning of Turn
North Pskov area

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:06 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 Beginning of Turn
Soviets Attack and beat the SH*T out of my tanks. GAH!

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:08 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 beginning of turn
Riga Bombed 1 or 2

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:09 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 beginning of turn
Riga bombed 2 of 2

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:10 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 beginning of turn
Vilnius Bombed 1 of 4

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:11 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 beginning of turn
Vilnius bombed 2 of 4

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:11 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 Beginning of turn
Vilnius bombed 3 of 4

RE: Der schreie der verstorbenen soldaten, HLYA(G) vs Gunnulf(S)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:12 am
by DeletedUser1769703214
Turn 3 beginning of turn
Vilnius bombed 4 of 4
Not in order but works just the same
Plus Vilnius didn't seem that bad on losses on the Soviets. The question is, "Is this worth it"?
