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Tom1939 wrote:1941. december 14.
Blizzard
Axis losses are huge.

Losses this week:

Axis/Soviet

8379/1068
815/532
4023/136
366/278

Well, so much for Ricky's blizzard bug fix
:rolleyes:

Well I still think the blizzard fix works. I'm shatering korpses which were already retreating last turn, and probably had low readines. And Rick did attack the turn before the blizzards, which hurts him I think. The red army is so strong that it has the cpability to beat german infantry even in snow conditions, so blizzard will be horrible for the germans after the first breakthrough.

But! I have a game against Mr. Shane Burtfam from Australia. He is with the evil germans. He beat me up during the summer (at least twice the losses I have here) so he could stop my attacks during the blizzards with high readines infantry korpses, as he already prepared defense and supply 4-6 weeks before blizzards. He stopped me without much problem, only a few retreats and one shatter. He is low on infantry but should be fine to finish me off in the summer.

So if the germans weaken the red army enough, and have strong defenders high readines they should be fine. Oherways they perish:) It is fine so I think.

Hey all....just got back from a short stint overseas, and I really missed playing WIR. "Possum" is new to me; however, it seems like it makes the game as fun as ever. Anyway, I love reading this thread! The few screen shots make the flow, well, "cool" to read. Love it, and keep up the great work!

Although many of our soldaten are retreating in great haste, the Wehrmacht, with Luftwaffe support in the heavy blowing snow, showed it still has teeth. The Luftwaffe pounded an enemy army that had pursued us outside of its CAP, and then a weak force clawed its way across the icy steppe and attacked the enemy, destroying a numerically superior force. But otherwise, things do not look good as a major retreat has been ordered.

Axis/Soviet

17/1083 Squads
0/418 AFVs
2/508 Guns
19/0 Planes

For K62, I took a look back a few turns ago at my illustious opponent's forces and he had units massed with CVs up to 200 or so. And as Tamas said, most of the damage was done to retreating forces, but not all of it. And he has very strong air forces, which I assume have done their part in weakening my defenders enough to be shattered. On the other hand, I don't think my bombardment attacks played much of a role in the disaster, but maybe they did. Everybody was dug in to 3 or 4 anyway. What it really comes down to is he is extremely strong from his good play/my bad play, especially the air forces which are probably in the range of 70-90 experience, I would guess (I didn't peak at them, just the ground forces of a few turns ago).

1941. december 21.
Blizzard

Red Air Force still has some problems with giving air support... One army lost, one air commander executed, life goes on:)

Our forces clashed against the second german line of defense which put up strong resistance but were broken through at several places. Next week we hope to massacre this line as well. Stalin has put a new goal for the red army until end of february: Odessa, Zhitomir,Minsk, and Lenningrad have to be recaptured! It will be hard as in the noth the enemy repulses all attacks strongly. Stalin gets angrier and angrier...

Losses this week:

Axis/Soviet

2288/1159
298/423
1469/126
40/41

Stavka

p.s: Rick is right, I have at least 8 monster armies (tank and shock) which are close to or over 200 cv rested. In the central area there is 2 shock armies, which did not even attack, as they play catch up. This monsters were only stopped once (!) so far this winter if I remember right. I have a huge fighter force with about 40% decent fighters (yak, lagg, mig) and quite good experience. They can fight the germans with 2:1 or 3:1 loss ratio for the germans. Rick shows little intrest to attrition air battles sadly:( Decisive times will come I think.

Good luck Rick - I really hope there's something you can still do after losing 15000 squads and 1500 tanks in just 3 turns of blizzard... If both of you say that the blizzard fix is OK I guess I'll have to believe it, although I'm still somewhat skeptical. I've never seen the Germans recover after such heavy losses (even Stalingrad was only 2000 squads or so ) - and Rick says he was actually entrenched and well-supplied

Time to make some numbers alive. In 41 german (and russian) full divisions have 243 squads and a german division had around 16.000+ men in it in full strengh. It makes some 70 men in squad (which is a large platoon or small company). Russians had some 14.000+ men in their division when the war broke up which makes some 60 men in squad.

German losses were more or less 40.000 men dead per month on eastern front which makes some 150 squads per week or turn. In my games german losses are usually some 200 - 500 squads per turn with an occasional 1000+ squads as one infantry korps surrenders.

Even in Stalingrad losses were only 4.000 squads and it was considered as a major disaster. 15.000 squads is a million men which is about one eight of the wehrmacht in 41-42.

Source for german losses: http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html If somebody knows a good site with russian losses I'd like to know.

Vero

Ehheheh, omaperäinen nimi.

Well, first of all the 50 men / squad in the game is an abstraction, and as such cannot be and is not even meant to be totally accurate... Secondly, we can presume that 'casualties' also includes the amount of the more or less wounded and paralysed, which is of course higher than the pure death count. For example, consider the following quote (from the Third Reich Factbook):

The Wehrmacht had lost over half a million men by the end of September, about 14% of their total strength, and lacked 200,000 replacements. Training and replacement capacity was no larger than it had been in September 1939.

The half a million figure clearly includes those who are too badly injured to fight(perhaps never again). Clearly, there is more to casualties than just the death count.

K62 wrote:Good luck Rick - I really hope there's something you can still do after losing 15000 squads and 1500 tanks in just 3 turns of blizzard... If both of you say that the blizzard fix is OK I guess I'll have to believe it, although I'm still somewhat skeptical. I've never seen the Germans recover after such heavy losses (even Stalingrad was only 2000 squads or so ) - and Rick says he was actually entrenched and well-supplied

Yes, I think the blizzard fix is OK. But I do not think Rick will recover from this winter. I have broken through, and he doesn't have a continous line and many german korpses are on the retreat. That means that he should be nowhere close to the needed readiness of 80-90. In 3.3 blizzard germans with high readiness fight nearly like in snow condition, but are doomed with low readiness. I think Rick must flee with full speed to live another day, which I think he will behind secondary defensive positions.

Are you guys saying that the Russians are still too strong in the Blizzard?

To my experience, the Germans can survive all winter if they are well dug in and even more importantly have beaten the Russian army to a pulp during the summer of 41.
But to go on and actually winning as the Germans, you most certainly need to capture Moscow before the winter sets in in 41. If you don't you can only force a draw at the most.

You can totally ignore both Leningrad and Kiev as long as you get Moscow. If Moscow is still in German hands when the snow melts in 42, they are very close to winning.
So take Moscow and hold it = winning.
Giving up Moscow = losing or draw.

In this particular game (although the screenshots dont seem to be working) the Germans havent done enough to make it through the winter. They have to encircle and eliminate far more Russian armies and stop the advance in time to dig in fully. Keep a continuous line behind a river with Armor in reserve. Use the Luftwaffe extensively throughout 41 to limit the Russian air.
RickyB has done neither of this.

If he dont give up soon, I expect to see the Russian gaining much land this winter and the Germans being no threat in the summer of 42. By the winter 42/43 the Russians are in Berlin

1941. december 28.
Blizzard

The german retreat has become a running contest this week. Some germans were caught and destroyed. The german's garrisoned Zhitomir with strong troops and our first attack was repulsed. In the North the finn's fight very well sadly. But in the centre Minsk seems to be within reach in few weeks.

Losses this week:

Axis/Soviet

2403/873
119/211
911/73
641/294

Stavka

The brave but few soldaten of the fatherland continue to fall back before the hordes of the east. It is not known if they will be able to hold a line or not. But the battle will go on.

Axis/Soviet

0/220 Squads
0/78 AFVs
0/130 Guns
93/113 Planes

1942. january 4.
Blizzard

We continued to run after the germans. 2 tank armies went after Minsk, which are only 2 hexes away now. A panzer korps tried to stop them but it was first forced to retreat, then shattered. A strong german panzer korps was forced to retreat in the north but sadly it did not shatter. The "fierce devil" finns were not touched this time as we try to encircle them first, so we went for the poor german units in the area. The german high command tries to hold Lenningrad but one of our tank armies is only 2 hexes away from Pskov so we might capture some germans:) In the south there were no german resistance as Zhitomir has fallen and Odessa is slowly in striking distance.

Losses this week:

Axis/Soviet

759/125
343/47
581/10
0/15

Stavka

I cant see how the germans will ever win this one.
Odessa, Minsk.
They are almost back at the starting point.

The fast advance will be much slower now as I'm nearly out of supply. But I think I can make it to the 41 borders in the south and central areas hopefully before blizzard ends. Getting back Lenningrad from the finns or capturing Ploesti would be a real bonus. I think the only hope for germany is a draw now. I don't think the red army could be defeated if I don't make silly mistakes.

No realistic chance of a victory for the Germans, or even a draw. Holding on for even a short time will be extremely difficult against the hordes bearing down on the borders of the Reich. But fight on we shall do.

Axis/Soviet

92/407 Squads
0/88 AFVs
3/233 Guns
15/0 Planes

42. january 11.
Blizzard

The mighty red army starves for supply and it slowed down considerably this week. We could not catch the running germans this time. Minsk and Pskov has fallen without a fight. The last strong german defence line in the north has begun a fast retreat as well after its southern flank was in grave danger. Soviet troops are ready to besiege Lenningrad next week. In the far north our troops failed to push back the finns.

Losses this week:

Axis/Soviet

81/99
0/56
53/20
79/14

Stavka

p.s: I believe the deceisive battles will come this summer somwhere between Minsk and Warsaw. It will deceide between fast red victory or a long bloody war with a possible draw. The german infantry must be crippled with nearly 30 k squads lost from the start, but "only" some 4200 panzers lost makes me cautious about fast total victory.

what are total casualties?

I took the time to read the entire thread. In one blizzard turn, the Germans lost 8k squads. That's bad juju!

Total losses so far:

Axis/Soviet

Squads 29628/41798
Afv 4286/10668
Guns 13503/14391
Planes 6144/10841

I would say things go fairly well, but I would like to see more german panzers destroyed:)