Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: von Murrin

I'll take a vision over the Texas National Guard, Vietnam, or claims of who did what to whom for God knows what reason any day.[:)]

I didn't intend to start or continue any debate. It's simply a case of offering you something to consider, no posturing, rhetoric, or invective included, nor reply needed. I'll type it out anyway and send it, and you can read or delete, reply or not, at your leisure.[:)]

Sorry, slight misunderstanding on my side. I was bracing against another launch of Fox duds..... I'm open for every constructive and interesting contribution. If I'm presented with credible solid arguments I'm ready to correct my position in any discussion. So: I'm curious what you have in your sleeve. [:)]

Look for it Friday (your time) then.[:)]

ORIGINAL: hithere

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

This was a humor thread ... keep the politics out of it. [:'(]

but isn't politics humorous?

It's a bad joke most of the time.

chics dig giant battleships......

hey....does anyone know how a person from Southern France says hey?





Bon jur ya'll !!!!

[:D] [:)]

i'm sorry..i crack my self up

Wow. cheap [:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: hithere

hey....does anyone know how a person from Southern France says hey?





Bon jur ya'll !!!!

[:D] [:)]

What is this accent?[&:]I have never heard something like that?[:D][:D][:D]

Regular scans of US media with international outreach (trash doesn't leave local or regional boundaries.......) tell a different picture of the ratio of liberal American media, and your 80% is a ridiculous ratio (in reality things look rather reversed). But I guess all that's not shining brightly on the conservative agenda and brings up uncomfortable questions will be denounced as being liberal.....

But it's hard to understand how blindly you follow your leadership, even more so since the circumstances how Bush became president were disgusting. In Europe we had some utter bad experiences with leaders with absolute power, therefore it's hard to take for example how easy you can forgive to be lead into war with weak if not plain false reasons given.

So my question to you: How do you cope with the fact that the arsenal of weapons of mass distruction in Iraq has turned out to be non-existent? And do you still believe that there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaida and 9/11? Are you happy with how things turned out in Iraq after the military victory? Do you really think this has lead to more sympathy towards the US in the potential pool of terrorists? If not, how can you still support Bush with his war on terror strategy?

By the way: I'd never say Kerry is an ideal choice, but there's no other choice in my eyes to avoid the certainty of even more porcellain broken during a second Bush presidency.....

Forranger,
While I still assert that this is NOT a good place to discuss politics of ANY stripe, I feel I must reply to your comments.

First a little bit of background on myself. I was a registered republican voter, who voted republican in every Presidential election beginning in 1980, including the Presidential primary of 2000 (when I voted for McCain). However, since the election of 2000, I have realized that the republican party (and for that matter the democratic party) have been bought and sold many times over. I was horrified and disgusted with Bush's brand of gutter politics, both against his own party mates AND against Gore. I was even more angered and disgusted with the way Bush and his people subsequently conspired to steal the election. I reject the politics of hate and fear, which **I** feel Bush and his people practice. Some would call me a "sell-out", others would call me a left-leaning radical, however on some issues I am quite conservative and on others I am moderate and on a few I am quite liberal. Therefore I also reject "labels" as none seem to fit. I would say that I am among a growing number of Americans that are utterly disgusted with the corporate control of our politics, that reject hate and fear AND feel that NONE (with the exception of a VERY select few) of our current politicians actually represent the people which have elected them.

As to your questions there are many of us that reject Bush out-of-hand for the lair that he is. There are many of us that realize what a true threat to democracy (the ideal that is), that Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft among others, represent. Sadly, there are too many of us that are complacent, that are satisfied with our suburban lives, our 9-5 money making gigs and our place in life that we are "allowed" to attain, to upset the apple cart so to speak. We sit back and do little or nothing while pretenders to the throne steal elections, disparage and denounce honest people and lie and deceive the American public through their conspirators, the corporate press. In our elections we are presented with little or no true choices, the candidates being but shades of gray, rather than black and white differences apart. There are also many of us that have served time in the military both in war and peace time, that realize what a cluster-f**k Iraq has become. Many of us realize that it was unnecessary, wrong and down-right criminal to fight a war with Iraq. Saddam Hussein while being a despot and a murderous tyrant, didn't change much in the 30 odd years he was in power. And for most of those years the U.S. not only supplied him with intelligence and money, we also provided him with the VERY weapons of mass destruction that we supposedly went to war with him over. Citizens of the U.S. are rightly enraged by the attacks on this Country on 9/11, but we don't even shed a tear over the 10,000+ INNOCENT CIVILIANS that our "preemptive war" has killed. It is simply considered the cost of "business". We are not outraged (most of us anyway) that 1000 and counting, of our best and brightest have died fighting an unnecessary war, all for NO gain. We sit back while the Administration goes off to fight its' so called war on terror in Iraq and do not speak up while the real terrorists (such as bin Laden) escape to fight again. And while regimes that actually threaten us (such as North Korea etc.) develop weapons of mass destruction and delivery systems that can actually hit our soil, we engage them in dialogue that has proven meaningless in the past. Meanwhile, while we waste billions of dollars on a space-based missile defense that won't possibly see results for at least 10 years, probably longer, the dollars we need to educate the next group of our best and brightest are rapidly dwindling. And the last and best kicker of all, our middle-class lifestyles and jobs, the very ones that have made most of us SO complacent in the first place are rapidly being out-sourced to the Third World. Poverty is escalating at a rate exceeded only by the Great Depression. This is a weapon of mass destruction and true terrorism and it is being committed by our Corporations. Meanwhile, we distract our masses with images of bin Laden, Hussein et al. Prestidigitation at its' finest and it is being committed by ALL our politicians liberals, conservatives, democrats and republicans.

Last but not least, there is an old saying, "between the devil and the deep blue sea", which I think happens to describe this election completely. We have a choice to go by fire or by drowning so to speak, well I choose drowning. Because at least for a while anyway, I can tread water AND I might just be able to make it to shore. Fire and my butt is a crispy critter from the outset. Now back to discussing WitP, politics have no true place here, as only a precious few of us are ever going to agree upon them anyway. My momma always told me never to discuss politics or religion, as that was a sure way to make enemies.

Rick

I see the Evil Canadian-French Alliance has done it's work.

Its a conspiracy!

[X(]

Wonderful,now the Bush haters are in fullswing and vent mode.

Oh and MadmanRick,the politics of hate and fear you decry were brought to us by that great political duo-Clinton/Gore.We are now reaping what they so skillfully sewed into our political culture.Atleast this election more people will get off their dead asses and vote!

ORIGINAL: Tophat

Wonderful,now the Bush haters are in fullswing and vent mode.

Oh and MadmanRick,the politics of hate and fear you decry were brought to us by that great political duo-Clinton/Gore.We are now reaping what they so skillfully sewed into our political culture.Atleast this election more people will get off their dead asses and vote!

Hey I resemble that remark.. Uhmm... Wait.. I am a self proclaimed Anti-Bush fan and am 99% likely to vote Kerry... As for all the propaganda enough with it.. Both sides use it to their best advantage... For those who are not well versed in our politics, when Bush says Kerry voted for taxes XXX times - he did.. But what you don't know is that a single bill in congress can have 100 different things on it with some of them very small in comparrison to the real issue - so voting for say Ban on WMD you could also be voting to raise taxes on widgets... So these numbers are true, but skewd... NOW... when Kerry blames Bush for the economy is that really fair ? Since when does the president determine any laws or anything of the sort ? The President is a figurehead for a lot of areas that Congress really controls... BUT the guy in charge takes the credit and gets all the crap...

So in short, both sides twist numbers to their favor and unfortunately that is politics in the USA... Whether you are a liberal commie (Kerry supporter) or a Right-Wing Nut Job (Bush supporter) go out and do you duty tuesday and vote... If you don't vote then you have no right to praise / bitch about what happens in this country.... So put up or shut up...

I don't want to start more flaming, but lets lay off each other for their views... That is the greatest thing about America we are allowed to express our views publicly and criticise our own government without fear of reprisal... Lets lets all pull together and elect someone on tuesday and not have another fiasco like 2000 - but I feel we are heading for another super close election and unfortunately it looks like my state (Ohio) will be the screwup this time instead of Florida...

Xargun

PS Don't you love the politcal cartoons ?

I agree. Lets end it. Some of us will vote for Bush, some for Kerry. Others don't care, or don't live in America. And still others will throw their vote away on Nader [;)] (j/k). Le us leave it at this. All of us have our opinions, values and beliefs. Each is just as good as the other guys, and none of us have been brainwashed. Sound fair enough to all parties?

EDIT: Remember, as election day is approaching, its time to watch "My Fellow Americans" I love that movie this time of year.

glad that you have sorted it out guys. [:)] good post btw Xargun & Tanker.

Thank God, this disgusting election is almost over.

The people in my state have had the misfortune of becoming one of the "battleground" states, exposing us to unhealthy volumes dirty smear ads and an unending, shrieking din eminating from a plethora of "activists", that I assume were issued forth from the lower regions of hell.

We've had the additional calamity of one or more of these bozos showing up every other day to snarl traffic and generally make a pest out of themselves.

Is this supposed to be a good example of American style democracy we are trying to export to other regions of the world? Who would want it?

ORIGINAL: doktorblood

Thank God, this disgusting election is almost over.

The people in my state have had the misfortune of becoming one of the "battleground" states, exposing us to unhealthy volumes dirty smear ads and an unending, shrieking din eminating from a plethora of "activists", that I assume were issued forth from the lower regions of hell.

We've had the additional calamity of one or more of these bozos showing up every other day to snarl traffic and generally make a pest out of themselves.

Is this supposed to be a good example of American style democracy we are trying to export to other regions of the world? Who would want it?

Dok you live in ohio too ? I am soooo sick of traffic being screwed up so one of the candidates (or vice president candidates) or their kids, or whoever can talk... You ever notice they shut down the busiest roads right at the busiest times ?

Xargun

I'm up near cleveland.....what are you boys complaining about.....Bush is on the Westside today,Kerry is going to have a flippin Rock concert Sunday/Monday.The local radio is jammed with 527 Ads........NAACP is out turning this into a racewar,unless the rightguy wins.I've had soooooo many phone solicitations to help me decide how to vote I take the phone off the hook during dinner.
Oh and our wonderous non-partisan county electionboard had some shananagans with our punch-hole ballot.

ORIGINAL: Tophat

I'm up near cleveland.....what are you boys complaining about.....Bush is on the Westside today,Kerry is going to have a flippin Rock concert Sunday/Monday.The local radio is jammed with 527 Ads........NAACP is out turning this into a racewar,unless the rightguy wins.I've had soooooo many phone solicitations to help me decide how to vote I take the phone off the hook during dinner.
Oh and our wonderous non-partisan county electionboard had some shananagans with our punch-hole ballot.

I feel with ya.. I live outside columbus but work inside the city and half of my job is driving from job site to job site and those clowns close all the major roads at the most inopportune time...

Phone solicitations huh ? I had Bill Clinton call me telling me that the Democrats need my help... It was a recording... I hung up on him... Like I have time to help between work (10-12 hrs a day) and WitP... A guy has to have his priorities straight... [;)]

Xargun

ORIGINAL: Xargun

Phone solicitations huh ? I had Bill Clinton call me telling me that the Democrats need my help... It was a recording... I hung up on him... Like I have time to help between work (10-12 hrs a day) and WitP... A guy has to have his priorities straight... [;)]

Xargun

The war to end all wars, eh?[:'(]

ORIGINAL: Xargun


Hey I resemble that remark.. Uhmm... Wait.. I am a self proclaimed Anti-Bush fan and am 99% likely to vote Kerry... As for all the propaganda enough with it.. Both sides use it to their best advantage... For those who are not well versed in our politics, when Bush says Kerry voted for taxes XXX times - he did.. But what you don't know is that a single bill in congress can have 100 different things on it with some of them very small in comparrison to the real issue - so voting for say Ban on WMD you could also be voting to raise taxes on widgets... So these numbers are true, but skewd...

Xargun

Yup. I heard one of Bush's speeches earlier in the week claiming that Kerry voted against the B-1, B-2, upgrades to F-14D, and several other things. You know the speech: Kerry is for cutting the size of the military in half and then cutting pay in half in addition. Then the analyst from factcheck.org got on and explained, as did Xargun, that Kerry had voted against three out of something like twenty defense budgets he'd votedon. If these three bills happen to have some line item for the B-1, then Bush can say Kerry voted against it. Of course, Kerry may voted against the bill because it did not provide enough money for the military or maybe had a rider that provided $10 million to buy condoms for antarctic penguins, but that doesn't matter, does it? And, of course, the same BS spews forth from Kerry and Edwards as well. Just listening to the ridiculous claims of both sides during the debates made me ill. Cheney was the only one in the bunch that seemed worthy of being president based on what I saw in the debates. Something's broken with the system - probably the primaries - for us to have gotten the Hobbesian choice between tweedle-dum and tweedle-dummer for the past two election cycles. Something is preventing serious and moderate candidates from getting far enough in the process. Or is it simply the fact that, as Colin Powell stated as his circumstances, that a serious candidate doesn't want to stomach the BS necessary to become president?

By the way, I invite all of you to visit factcheck.org to see how blatantly preposterous both sides' claims are. As best I can tell, the site appears to be fairly neutral - it calls them both liars. Personally, I resent having my future president, whichever candidate that happens to be, shovel so much manure down my throat. If we could convert all that manure into fuel or natural gas, America would be energy independent. I only hope that this recent trend is not what is truly required to be elected in 21st century America, and that a serious candidate with serious ideas honestly presented can still be elected. Me? I'll be voting against the candidate I consider the greater of two evils and hoping the damage isn't too great by the time 2008 rolls around.

Dok you live in ohio too ?

"

No. Colorado. It's bad enough here... it must be exponetially worse in Ohio ... poor bastaerds. It must be miserable..

I guess we don't have enough electoral votes to rate Clinton calls here ... I only got Gore, Dean, and some slacker named Noot.