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Here are some modifications for the US Infantry Divisions I would like to submit:

WWII Infantry Divisions and Regimental Combat Teams:

Several things need to be included in the US Army formations. First, several new unit types need to be added (*). Second, there were no 75 or 76 mm ATG organic to the division. Third, the 4.2 inch mortar was not organic to the Division. Create separate Chemical Mortar BN’s instead. Make another entry for the 57mm with no upgrade path. Looking at the TOE in game terms for the platoon level up as follows:

Platoon:
3 x USA Rifle Squads

Company:
3 x Platoons
2 x Weapons Squads*
3x 60mm Mortars*

Battalion:
3 x Companies
1 AT Platoon
3 x 37mm ATG (1941)
3 x 57mm ATG (November 1942)
6 x 81mm Mortars
1 USA Engineer Squad

Regiment:
3 Battalions
1 Cannon Co
6 x 75mm How (1941)
6 x 105 How (7/42)
1 AT Company
12 x 37mm ATG
12 x 57mm ATG

Division:
Self Defense Platoon
3 x USA Rifle Squad
3 x Regiments
1 x Engineer BN
27x USA Engineer
6 x Engineer Vehicle
1 x Recon Troop
9 x M8 Armored Car
3 x USA Rifle Squad
1 x 81mm Mortar
3 x 105 How Battalions
12 x 105 How
1 x 155 How BN
12 x 155mm How

Div Totals:
249 USA Rifle Squads – Upgrade path okay
54 USA Weapons Squads – No upgrade path
36 USA Engineer Squads – Upgrade path okay
72 0.50 Browning AAMG
90 60mm Mortars
55 81mm Mortars
63 ATG (37mm then upgrade to 57mm - although Forty mentions that the 37mm was in service in for much of the war in the Pacific)
18 75mm GMC Halftrack (until early 1943)
36 + 18 105mm Howitzer (July 1942 add 18 regimental pieces)
12 155mm Howitzer
9 M8 Armored Cars
650 Support

Regimental Combat Team:
82 USA Rifle Squads
18 USA Weapons Squads
12 USA Engineer Squads
24 0.050 Browning AAMG
27 60mm Mortars
18 81mm Mortars
21 37mm ATG – Upgrades to 57mm ATG
6 75mm GMC Halftrack – Upgrades to 105mm Howitzer
12 105mm howitzer
3 M8
200 Support
* No 155mm Howitzers
** No 4.2 inch Mortars




Unit Specs:

Name: 60mm Mortar USA Weapon Squad M8 Armored Car
Type: 19-Army Weapon 23-Squad 22-AFV
Range: 2 0 1
Accuracy: 8 0 9
Effect: 3 0 2
Ceiling: 0 0 0
Armor 0 0 20
Penetration: 5 0 70
Dud Rate: 0 0 0
Anti-Armor: 10 25 78
Anti-Soft: 10 40 28
Load Cost: 2 9 10
Available: 4112 4112 4112
Upgrade: Same Same Same
Build rate: 20 25 30

. 50 cal Browning - The Division had over 236 of these weapons authorized, many of them mounted on AA rings on trucks.

The 60mm mortar is a crucial firepower unit of the Company.

The USA Weapon Squad represents the organic 0.50 M2 MG and the 0.30 M1919 MG found in the weapons platoon of the company.

The M8 was the standard US armored car.

Sources include:

Forty, George
1996 US Army Handbook 1939-1940.

US Army
1944 Catalogue of Standard Ordinance Items, Vols. I-III. US Army Ordinance Technical Division

Wilson, John B.
1998 Maneuver and Firepower: The Evolution of Divisions and Separate Brigades, Army Lineage Series

Anyway, so long as it wouldn't break the game for any known reason... I would be willing to work on this for my own amusement, and I would be willing to share my efforts (starting with USMC, Soviets, and Japanese in Manchuria) with anyone that is interested. Given the amount of work you guys are doing on the other details, any additional work I would want to do would neccesarrily want to build on your own efforts. But I don't want to plagiarize or butt in if people would get upset about it.

ORIGINAL: Tomo

IJA, there were 355 infantry divisions, 4 tank divisions, 4 anti air divisions and 13 air divisions.

Some are home defend divisions.
Some are Manchuria defend divisions
Some of them existed only onpaper.
I hope such minor divisions see the light in this scenario.

• 255th Tank Brigade (currently in OOB)
• 268th Lorried Infantry Brigade (currently in OOB)

• 14th Airlanding Brigade (currently in OOB as Chindits)
• 50th Indian Parachute Brigade (currently in OOB)
• 77th Indian Brigade (not currently in OOB, see Chindits).

• 50th Indian Tank Brigade - apparently existed with same number as 50th Indian Parachute Brigade - not currently in OOB
  [ol]
• 146th Regt Royal Armoured Corps - not currently in OOB
• 19th Sqn K.G.V. O Lancers - not currently in OOB
• 45th. Cavalry Regt - not currently in OOB
• 2nd. Btn 4th Bombay Grenadiers - not currently in OOB
  [/ol]
• 251st Indian Tank Brigade - not currently in OOB but an erroneous 251st UK Brigade is in the OOB
• 9th RDH Cavalry Tank Regiment - currently in OOB, not allocated to a Brigade (later part of 255th Tank Brigade)
• 3rd Carabineers Regiment - currently in OOB, not allocated to a Brigade (apparently was originally in 251st Tank Brigade and later partially integrated into 254th Tank Brigade.
• 116th RAC Tank Regiment - currently in OOB, not allocated to a Brigade (was part of short lived 267th Tank Brigade.
• 25th Dragoons Tank Regiment - currently in OOB, not allocated to a Brigade

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

US refers only to the nation.

That is my whole point. I am not saying that if ONLY United States Divisions are in whether we should use US or USA. If that were the case, I'd say leave it out.

In War in the Pacific, the only reason the US, AUS, UK, etc are in are to distinguish nationality, not branch of service. In this context, US is more appropriaite than USA.

For American units (at least in most sources I've read) the only distinguishment was put on Marine units. I.e., to tell the 1st Infantry Division and the 1st Marine Division appart, is the Army division has a type of unit (infantry, cavalry, armored, etc), whereas the Marine unit is simply a Marine divisison.

I am speaking from the context of nationality (which is why the US, AUS, and UK is used). In that since, US is more approriate than USA.

This is not my logic, so please don't say it is. This is something you came up with, and I agree that what you came up with is nonsense.

The reason I said its your logic, is I brought this issue up as nationality, not service. However, in your post you said nothing about distinguishing US from any other nation, only as branch of service (Army vs Marine, NOT US from British). Thus, my counter to that was to do other nations as such.

If people don't want to do this that is fine. Usually, the only time I have ever heard a US unit called USA is by a translation of a non English language in which they spell out the whole country's name.

EDIT: Oops, I guess I could have made the fact that I was targeting nationality a bit more clear. I guess I assumed that since other nations Divisions had UK, AUS, Chinese, etc it would be plain. Apologies for any confusion.

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

thanks for responding.

I realize game is different scale but it still includes divisions and regiments. And it still depicts number of combat squads, support squads, and heavy weapons. But why have incorrect counts of combat squads, tanks, heavy mortars, heavy machine guns, wrong caliber AT guns, and artillery which are part of what is counted in Matrix TOE?

Seems to me that odds and ends (anyone not in a combat squad or on a crew served weapon) would be included in support squads.

What I'm trying to figure out is if all those numbers in the TOE are meaningless. Are they just sort of window dressing on the way to some sort of abstracted combat strength/movement point number like an old Avalon Hill cardboard counter?

I realize you are probably to far along to want to redo your own efforts. I'm trying to figure out if it would be completely pointless to actually work out historically correct numbers of tooth to tale for units depicted in the game. Is there some known reason from Matrix that says accurate numbers of combat and support squads -- not to mention correct numbers and calibers of howitzers -- would break the game?

THis was the point of my first question in this thread, which did not get a response. Would accurate numbers break the game?

BTW, while the game doesn't model individual firearms, it seems to make certain assumptions about something when it goes to determine the firepower of various squads. From a brief once-over US Army squads consistently have more firepower than USMC squads despite army squads topping out at 10 men, 2 BAR, and USMC squads evolving to 12 men 3 BAR.

How does Japanese artillery stack up in game terms to Soviets? Does it really track what we know from history?

Could more accurate TOE's actually have an impact on ahistorical Japanese success against Soviets in WITP?

Anyway, so long as it wouldn't break the game for any known reason... I would be willing to work on this for my own amusement, and I would be willing to share my efforts (starting with USMC, Soviets, and Japanese in Manchuria) with anyone that is interested. Given the amount of work you guys are doing on the other details, any additional work I would want to do would neccesarrily want to build on your own efforts. But I don't want to plagiarize or butt in if people would get upset about it.

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

Hi

from Loyalty&Honour vol2

115th Indian Inf. Bde [training]
formed sept 1943 as Gurka training Bde under 39th Indian training Div.
disbanded 31st march 1946

14th Gurkha Rifles
38th Gurkha Rifles
56th Gurkha Rifles
710th Gurkha Rifles
NB These units were joint training units ie 1st & 4th Gurkha Rifles , 7th & 10th Gurkha Rifles etc.

Armoured Units
As with all British and Indian Bde's and Div's they changed there composition on a regular basis and its very difficult to to come up with a spot on OOB .
At present I've identified 16 Armoured Regt's that served in India/Burma
In the game there are 2 Arm. Bde's 255,254 and 3 Regts[?] that accounts for 9 of the Regts
should be in the game 50 Ind. Tk. Bde acounts for another 3 Regts
'I think' should be in the game 251 Tk Bde accounts for another 3 Regts
this leaves 1 Arm Regt outstanding which could be 11th Pavo [Prince Albert Victor's Own[11th Frontier Force]
Total Arm Regt's = 16
All the 16 Arm/Cavalry Regt's served in at least two if not all the Arm/Tank Bde's at some point.

17th Indian Div.
from L & H

48th Bde appears to be with 17 Div from 1942 to 1947
63rd Bde march 42 to 1947
99th Bde oct 44 to 1946

note: May 1942 17th Div was reorganized and equiped as a Light Division with 48th and 63rd Bde's
jan 1945 reorganised to consist of 2 Motorized Bde's [48th and 63rd] and one air transportable[99th]
For my money I'd remove 17th Div and replace with it's Bde's .[iN my small mod thats what i've done]
Also means you can have a Gurkha Bde [48th] [somewhere to put those Gurkha squads]

Don if you have any more questions I can dig the info out for you [have all three vols of L & H ]

ORIGINAL: Iron Duke

Hi Don,

When your happy with India , I've got a copy of Rays Of The Rising Sun - Armed Forces of Japan's Asian Allies 1931-1945 Vol 1 China and Manchukuo - how about putting an extra 600,000 chinese troops under japanese command [X(][:D]

Cheers