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Sinusoidal maps are equal-area - critical that the hexes all be the same size.

Correct, but on Sinusoidal maps the polar regions are heavily distorted. Sinusoidal Interrupted significantly improves this shortcoming. However, a seamless hex mesh at the seams of the gores is impossible, which is unacceptable for global games.

Vanakalion wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:22 pm

Sinusoidal maps are equal-area - critical that the hexes all be the same size.

Correct, but on Sinusoidal maps the polar regions are heavily distorted. Sinusoidal Interrupted significantly improves this shortcoming. However, a seamless hex mesh at the seams of the gores is impossible, which is unacceptable for global games.

Hopefully the seams can be situated in non-critical areas where a little distortion can be tolerated. And are the poles really in-play for ground action? All of WW-II needs a global map - but not the poles. Even in WW-III only Bomber/ICBMs are going to be crossing the poles.

Another advantage of sinusoidal projections: Latitude lines are horizontal = facilitates temperature/weather.

Curtis Lemay wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 4:43 pm Hopefully the seams can be situated in non-critical areas where a little distortion can be tolerated.

I would add that this isn't just a hope - it's more of a necessity. If the seams are in critical areas then, while movement may be correct, bombardment/air missions will be very difficult to model - or for players to visualize.

I thought that spherical maps were called globes . . .

Global projection, to put it aptly. The topic is still a hot potato. So far nobody has succeeded in presenting a practicable two-dimensional representation of the world as a general-purpose world map that is conformal, equidistant, equal-area and furthermore tileable with hexagons.
In my opinion, the modified HEALpix projection is the only acceptable compromise I know of.

Vanakalion wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 1:44 pm

I am not sure what you mean by that? Where have you seen this claim?

All attempts to generate worlds without pentagons have failed miserably (see Civilization & co.)
This wisdom comes from several developer forums.

But that is not mathematicians, that is just game designers...

Hopefully the seams can be situated in non-critical areas where a little distortion can be tolerated.

There are no non-critical areas in global simulations of any planet.
Noticeable inaccuracies due to distortion already occur to a greater or lesser extent in Canada and Scandinavia in almost all projections.
I don't limit myself to simple WWII simulations, but need the egg-laying wool-milk sow that can represent any planet in its entirety.

Vanakalion wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:57 pm

Hopefully the seams can be situated in non-critical areas where a little distortion can be tolerated.

There are no non-critical areas in global simulations of any planet.

Planet: Earth.
Global Simulation: World War II

Which would be the principle application of a global simulator.

Vanakalion wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:57 pm

Hopefully the seams can be situated in non-critical areas where a little distortion can be tolerated.

There are no non-critical areas in global simulations of any planet.
Noticeable inaccuracies due to distortion already occur to a greater or lesser extent in Canada and Scandinavia in almost all projections.
I don't limit myself to simple WWII simulations, but need the egg-laying wool-milk sow that can represent any planet in its entirety.

But these inaccuracies still occur. The map is just a cylinder with a top (and/or bottom) that can be rotated as needed, so to speak. The areas to the extreme north and south will thus be distorted anyway, as the projection has to cover a curve to a surface that is not curved.

ernieschwitz wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:33 am

Vanakalion wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2024 5:57 pm

Hopefully the seams can be situated in non-critical areas where a little distortion can be tolerated.

There are no non-critical areas in global simulations of any planet.
Noticeable inaccuracies due to distortion already occur to a greater or lesser extent in Canada and Scandinavia in almost all projections.
I don't limit myself to simple WWII simulations, but need the egg-laying wool-milk sow that can represent any planet in its entirety.

But these inaccuracies still occur. The map is just a cylinder with a top (and/or bottom) that can be rotated as needed, so to speak. The areas to the extreme north and south will thus be distorted anyway, as the projection has to cover a curve to a surface that is not curved.

And yes I know it is not round, like a cylinder, but the idea is the important one.

Which would be the principle application of a global simulator.

You're completely wrong.
The simulation of every speculative scenario.

Example:
The world is changing due to human error (massive impact on the sensitive adjusting screws of nature). What could the future look like? Our irresponsible past is catching up with our children and grandchildren.

Another example:
The scene is Mars. How could a human colony develop there?

Vanakalion wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:12 am

Which would be the principle application of a global simulator.

You're completely wrong.

I assume we're talking about wargaming here aren't we? This is a wargaming board, after all. If so, I am completely right!

The simulation of every speculative scenario.

Example:
The world is changing due to human error (massive impact on the sensitive adjusting screws of nature). What could the future look like? Our irresponsible past is catching up with our children and grandchildren.

Another example:
The scene is Mars. How could a human colony develop there?

From a wargame perspective, those are footnote topics at best.

Furthermore, once you get to "other worlds" than Earth, the planet's topography is either outright fantasy or very poorly known at best. Even in the latter case, the vast majority of the target audience will not know it well enough to even detect trace distortions arising from the projection.

I'll stick to my tried and true hexagons thank you very much.

Back in around 2004, during the early days of MWiF (Matrix World in Flames), I argued that if there was going to be a single global map, it should be spherical, with Google Earth like controls. I even convinced my 3rd year computer graphics lecturer to donate a 3D engine he'd written: I explained the game, and he's a WW2 buff.

The developer (Steve) said he liked the idea but he had enough on his plate. Fair enough. People didn't seem to understand what I was on about, so I generated some images from the MWiF global map and then I made an animation, a small version of which is my avatar. If you'd like a bigger version, it's here...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JMRcCS ... sp=sharing

p.s. The beginning of this thread makes me wonder how many of those early posters are no longer with us

That looks nice, Neilster.

I am assuming it is divided into the zones that MWiF has?

ernieschwitz wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:17 am That looks nice, Neilster.

I am assuming it is divided into the zones that MWiF has?

Yes. MWiF abstracts naval combat into sea zones and it's one of the best parts of the game system, as in the pre-satellite era, it was quite difficult to find opposing naval forces and naval combat in WW2 was somewhat unpredictable. Look at Midway, for example.

Neilster wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:12 am Back in around 2004, during the early days of MWiF (Matrix World in Flames), I argued that if there was going to be a single global map, it should be spherical, with Google Earth like controls. I even convinced my 3rd year computer graphics lecturer to donate a 3D engine he'd written: I explained the game, and he's a WW2 buff.

I thought that globe's area zones looked familiar.