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I found this on the net http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avb26.html :

Four Marauders were used in the torpedo-bomber role at the Battle of Midway in June 1942, scoring no hits and losing two of their number. Torpedo-carrying Marauders attacked the Japanese carrier RYUJO off the Aleutians the same day, but no hits were scored. These were the first and last times the Marauder saw combat with the USAAF as a torpedo bomber.

This information is correct but incomplete - so its conclusions are wrong.
Apparently some were also used in the SW Pacific area in 1942, and with more than one air force. I do not know details of successes, except there were some. Also, there is a USMC version of the B-25 called PBJ which was torpedo armed. By 1943 there were eight squadrons - and by 1945 four more were in training.

The three early Zero models had a drop tank! It is also in the device list!
Has been since stock - but was never implemented. I have implemented it for use by testers.

I have a report the 57mm gun on the Ki-102 works.

I have submitted torpedo and 75mm armed US medium bombers for testing

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The three early Zero models had a drop tank! It is also in the device list!
Has been since stock - but was never implemented. I have implemented it for use by testers.

How do drop tanks work in WITP? I always thought they were just figured in as part of the range in WITP.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I found this on the net http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avb26.html :

Four Marauders were used in the torpedo-bomber role at the Battle of Midway in June 1942, scoring no hits and losing two of their number. Torpedo-carrying Marauders attacked the Japanese carrier RYUJO off the Aleutians the same day, but no hits were scored. These were the first and last times the Marauder saw combat with the USAAF as a torpedo bomber.

This information is correct but incomplete - so its conclusions are wrong.
Apparently some were also used in the SW Pacific area in 1942, and with more than one air force. I do not know details of successes, except there were some. Also, there is a USMC version of the B-25 called PBJ which was torpedo armed. By 1943 there were eight squadrons - and by 1945 four more were in training.

From - http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b26_19.html

"The Marauder could carry an 18-inch 2000-pound torpedo slung on an external rack underneath the fuselage. On the ground, the torpedo only cleared the ground by about four inches when taxiing. In June, the B-26A made its debut as a torpedo bomber, being used against Japanese warships during the Battle of Midway. Four Marauders were equipped with external torpedo racks underneath the keel and took off on June 4, 1942 in an attempt to attack Japanese carriers. The torpedo runs began at 800 feet altitude, the B-26s then dropping down to only ten feet above the water under heavy attack from Japanese fighters. Two of the Marauders were lost in this action, and the other two were heavily damaged. No hits were made on the Japanese carriers. The B-26 was much too large an aircraft for this type of attack."


and From - http://www.vectorsite.net/avb26.html

"While the USAAF was grappling with the difficulties of getting the new bomber into operation, in October 1941 Martin began delivering the next variant, the "B-26A", with 139 built. This variant dealt with the range issue by accommodating a removeable fuel tank in the bombbay. The B-26A had torpedo shackles on the bombbay doors to allow it to carry a single 900 kilogram (2,000 pound) torpedo; replaced the nose and tail 7.62 millimeter guns with 12.7 millimeter guns; and changed the electrical system from 12 to 24 volts DC.....

Four Marauders were used in the torpedo-bomber role at the Battle of Midway in June 1942, scoring no hits and losing two of their number. Torpedo-carrying Marauders attacked the Japanese carrier RYUJO off the Aleutians the same day, but no hits were scored. These were the first and last times the Marauder saw combat with the USAAF as a torpedo bomber. ...

...The British apparently used them initially as torpedo-bombers in the Mediterranean with considerably greater success than had been enjoyed by the USAAF in that role. Marauders were also used for minelaying, maritime reconnaissance, and like the Maryland before it, as a fighter to intercept German transports flying to Africa. They later saw RAF and SAAF service in Italy and in support of Tito's partisans in Yugoslavia...

...This meant that the next production version was actually the "B-26F", which was put into production at the Baltimore plant in 1943, with 300 built. The B-26F was similar to early-block B-26Bs with -41 engines, but had the wing incidence shifted up by 3.5 degrees to shorten the takeoff run, though at a cost of a lower top speed. Experienced Marauder crews tended to regard such an "improvement" as a step backward. Provision for torpedo carriage was also removed. 200 of these aircraft were supplied to the RAF as "Marauder IIIs".

And for an interesting synopsis of the B-26 in the Pacific....http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... 6-18a.html

And the B-26 in general...http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/b ... b026i.html

How do drop tanks work in WITP? I always thought they were just figured in as part of the range in WITP.

This is my view. Another view is they do nothing whatever. Yet another is that they make normal range only 8/10 of actual range. It may be that "normal range" is reduced by 1/10 compared to an identical plane without drop tanks (it SHOULD be - but is it?). And it may be that a mission to extended range has no bombs - or fewer bombs - compared to an identical plane without drop tanks (but is it?) This should be in the manual - or in a special editors technical manual (which I would pay for - hint hint)

ORIGINAL: el cid again

What do your sources say were the arrival dates for No.9 and No.617 squadrons in India?

Nothing except they participated in operations in 1944 over Burma.
I assume that implies a 1944 arrival date. Probably we can find a unit history - but except for Japan and USA I do not have detail unit histories on a comprehensive basis.

Can you provide something more substantive? My understanding is that both No.617 and No.9 Squadrons were operating in Europe throughout 1944 (at least until November) trying to nail the Tirpitz. After that they remained operating in Europe until the German surrender. My information is sketchy however.

The only other information I have found is that No.617 Squadron deplyed to India in early 1946.

no mention or listing of these two squadrons in Shores' third volume on Burma/India theater, 1944 or 45

FYI.

Andrew,

Have you seen this web site?

http://www.rafweb.org/Menu.htm

For 617 Squadron:

It was ... allocated to 'Tiger Force' but the need for this force vanished when the Japanese surrendered following the dropping of the Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However 617 did move to India in January 1946 by returned to Binbrook in the UK in May.

For 9 Squadron:

As the end of the war in Europe loomed, No 9 was earmarked for operations in the Far East as part of 'Tiger Force', ... . However, the Japanese surrender after the dropping of two A-bombs brought these plans to a close, although the squadron did move to India to undertake aerial survey work until April 1946.

ORIGINAL: sspahr

Andrew,

Have you seen this web site?

http://www.rafweb.org/Menu.htm

Yes I have seen that site. It seems to be a good site for this sort of info, although it is a pity it is not more comprehensive.

Thanks,
Andrew

If it matters....


From: http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/14wing ... ory7_e.asp

Tiger Force - NO. 6614 Wing Greenwood
Three "Very Long Range" (VLR) bomber groups, each consisting of 22 Squadrons, (one RAF, one RCAF, and the third a composite British Commonwealth formation), were created and code-named "Tiger Force".

By Spring 1945, "Tiger Force" was scaled down to two groups, considerably smaller than originally proposed.

By 8 May 1945, almost immediately, the RCAF units earmarked for "Tiger Force" were converted to Canadian built Lancaster Bombers (MK X's) and returned to Canada for training and reorganization. No. 6614 Wing Greenwood was created. The plan called for the Wings to commence training for the Pacific in August, with the first Wing to arrive in the Pacific Theater by December.

The arrival of the new bomber Wing overlapped the phasing out of No. 8 (RCAF) OTU. The disbandment order for the OTU was to be effective 31 July 1945. By 1 August 1945, No. 664 (Heavy Bomber) Wing and its two squadrons (No. 405 and 408 Squadrons) were officially formed. Training was to commence 24 August 1945.

405 Squadron was Canada's first bomber squadron to form overseas, in April 1941. In April 1943, it became the RCAF's first and only Pathfinder Unit.


With the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the subsequent capitulation of Japan on 14 August 1945, No. 6614 Wing (and Tiger Force) became superfluous. On 5 September 1945, No. 6614 Wing officially disbanded as part of Tiger Force.


And from...
http://www.cadets.ca/_docs/cic/PIP-MOC-JOLC-Air_e.pdf
" When the war ended in Europe, The RCAF proceeded with plans to send a contingent of eight heavy bomber squadrons to the Pacific theater for operations with tiger force, a Commonwealth formation which was also to include ten RAF and two Royal Australian Air force (RAAF) bomber squadrons. The eight squadrons of No6 Group flew their Lancasters home to Canada in June, but the war in the far East ended before they had been re-formed and re-equipped."

Ooops - clicked on wrong thread. Moving to CHS OOB Errors.

________________________
There is something messed up with the 2nd Marine (USMC) Para Btn. Using scenario 154, at start of scenario the unit shows as due to arrive in 1 day at San Diego. It does not arrive and drops off the intel list of ground unit reinforcements.

The other USMC Para Btn's and the Raider Btn's all arrive okay. In a CHS game I have that's been running a long time I noticed it was missing but figured it was just a 'disappearing LCU' and I hadn't noticed when it disappeared. Tonight I got curious and decided to run a quick test.

EDIT: Okay, I found out what's happening. When the scenario begins, there is a field artillery unit set to arrive in 2 days, but it arrives at the end of teh Dec 7th turn. This means that the 2nd Marine Para, set to arrive in 1 day, misses it's chance and never arrives.

This is probably a bug in the code, but the result is that all units (at least LCU's, I haven't checked ships & planes) arrive 1 day early, and any slated to arrive just 1 day after scenario start will not arrive at all.

Can you provide something more substantive? My understanding is that both No.617 and No.9 Squadrons were operating in Europe throughout 1944 (at least until November) trying to nail the Tirpitz. After that they remained operating in Europe until the German surrender. My information is sketchy however.

Aircraft of the Royal Air Force Since 1918
Owen Thetford
Eighth Revised Edition,Putnam
1957 (1988 revision)

ISBN 0 85177 810 0

Article on Lancaster, Squadron Allocations, p. 67.

This lists commands [e.g. "Bomber Command (Wartime)" ; "Middle East (Post War)" and "Coastal Command (Post War)"]
The final listing is "India: 9 and 617" there is no parenthetical note indicating (Post War).
I suppose it may be ambiguous, but they seem to have attempted to be comprehensive and clear throughout.

FYI the text describes Tiger Force as "20 squadrons in two groups" - and says nothing of wings at all!

I will see what else I can find.

Sid

It appears the B-26 was used only early in the Pacific Campaign. I am not sure the later version was used at all in the Pacific? B-26 units mostly upgraded to B-25 or B-24 (but one went the other way, from B-25 to B-26 for a while!)

The B-25 appears to have largely also upgraded to B-24s. Reading the US Squadron histories reminds me of the comments players convert to 4 engines - the USAAF certainly did - if not completely than almost completely. Nevertheless, B-25 H and J were operational for a long time, well into 1944, while the B-26 seems to have been sent to Europe and North Africa after the first 9 months of the war.

I think players may like the torpedo armed B-26s and the 75mm gun armed B-25s - or even the modified B-25H with that gun removed - both of them with rockets. Maybe some will keep twin engine bombers after all? There also was a USMC version of the plane - and USN tested the ability to take off with catapults and land with arrester gear!

The Hurricane became the most important RAF fighter in the Pacific.
Many squadrons were sent or upgraded - not a few of them missing or failing to upgrade in stock and CHS. But the early Hurricane sent to Singapore is also missing - they let it be a much more capable version.
I have added a Hurricane I to represent that- and changed the IIb to the IIc - but let it represent the IIb - and then kept the IId/IV - but gave it rockets. The first fighter in the world with rockets.

I also found that 880 Squadron FAA had 9 Seafires and no Sea Hurricane when it entered the Indian Ocean.

Many squadrons were sent or upgraded - not a few of them missing or failing to upgrade in stock and CHS

List them please.

Various items posted here, and ambiguous wording in the RAF reference, and unit histories of 9 and 617 Squadrons RAF, force me to conclude they did not reach India until 1946. I am restoring them to Tiger Force. I have not yet removed squadron formations in favor of Wings or Groups - and have not yet seen a version of the OB which does that. Unless it appears the squadron organization won't work I may keep them.

Given the Lancaster does NOT appear during the historical war, I see no justification for two versions of it only starting in October 1945. I am very tempted to not include it at all. No Japanese aircraft which appears so late is allowed and there is no slot to put one in if it were. No game I have heard of lasts so late either and Joe thinks none ever will - that the mechanics never allow these dates to appear. USSBS concluded the war must have ended by 1 November 1945 without atom bombs and without invasion of Japan. Perhaps the scenario end is incorrectly set. Any thoughts?

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Various items posted here, and ambiguous wording in the RAF reference, and unit histories of 9 and 617 Squadrons RAF, force me to conclude they did not reach India until 1946. I am restoring them to Tiger Force. I have not yet removed squadron formations in favor of Wings or Groups - and have not yet seen a version of the OB which does that. Unless it appears the squadron organization won't work I may keep them.

Given the Lancaster does NOT appear during the historical war, I see no justification for two versions of it only starting in October 1945. I am very tempted to not include it at all. No Japanese aircraft which appears so late is allowed and there is no slot to put one in if it were. No game I have heard of lasts so late either and Joe thinks none ever will - that the mechanics never allow these dates to appear. USSBS concluded the war must have ended by 1 November 1945 without atom bombs and without invasion of Japan. Perhaps the scenario end is incorrectly set. Any thoughts?

Personally I would prefer to see a greater variety of early war aircraft for the reason you state ...most games seem to degenerate by 1945.

ORIGINAL: el cid again

USSBS concluded the war must have ended by 1 November 1945 without atom bombs and without invasion of Japan. Any thoughts?

A thought regarding the USSBS conclusion rather than the scenario. Their conclusion is the same mindset that says (I'm paraphrasing the mindset, not quoting anybody) we don't need ships or troops anymore, we can just break their 'will' with airpower ('them' being any opponent). That is still yet to happen. Even with two atomic bombs dropped Japan actually surrendering was a near thing.

My point being that while I am sure the USSBS is wonderful in many respects, I put no faith whatsoever in that particular conclusion.

The Hurricane became the most important RAF fighter in the Pacific.
Many squadrons were sent or upgraded - not a few of them missing or failing to upgrade in stock and CHS. But the early Hurricane sent to Singapore is also missing - they let it be a much more capable version.
I have added a Hurricane I to represent that- and changed the IIb to the IIc - but let it represent the IIb - and then kept the IId/IV - but gave it rockets. The first fighter in the world with rockets.

I also found that 880 Squadron FAA had 9 Seafires and no Sea Hurricane when it entered the Indian Ocean. [/quote]

Every book I have read indicates that the hurricanes sent to singapore were Mk IIb with the Merlin xx engine and 12 303 mgs's, ususally the outer 4 mgs were taken off. I would be suprised if the first batch that were sent were Mk I's. althoough anything is possible !

Re Sea Fires the first seafires on board ship were HMS furious in june 1942

It is impossible for HMS Indomidable to have seafires in December 1941 !!! I can show you pictures of Sea Hurricanes on board Indominable in August 1942, I have read a book by an RAF Hurricane Pilot who was ferried from Indomidable in January 1942 saying how a sea hurricane took off first (with the shortest deck space available) to show the RAF bods that it was possible. (Terrance Kelly The battle for Pelambang I think) Hurricanes over java and Sumatra is another recomended book

What convinced you that The FAA had Seafires available in 1941 !


If you wanted to be representative with RAF Hurricanes you could start with a mk IIb with a short range (only internal fuel), then by late 1942 upgrade to Mk IIc which had drop ranks and a range of 3/4 (from Imphal to Mandaly)
finally in 1943 upgrade to IId/v's (hurricanes over the the Arkan gives most of this information)

well done on the rockets


Hipper

I added 1790 FAA Squadron on HMS Vindix with Firefly using
leader 17559 - no longer used from a deleted unit.

I deleted 812, 816F and 824F Squadrons FAA. These are assigned
post war to ships not in theater anyway. This permitted renaming
816T to 816 and 824T to 824 - both correctly equipped with torpedo
bombers.

488 Squadron RAF should be 488 Squadron RNZAAF - it always was.

A number of Seafire squadrons are missing - others do not upgrade to it - others are wrongly assigned it - I am trying to compile a comprehensive list.