Matrix Games Forums

Elmo aka Lee,

Well done indeed! So, if Napoleon came out with only a handful, I think you making it out with a heck of a lot more means you might be a better general than little nappy[:'(]. But I am afraid the Gestapo will find that you shot yourself at some point for your failure to win a complete and total victory. I still say do the Scooby Doo ending and go back to your saved game and burn Moscow to the ground.

A couple of items...are you going to send the designers some notes with your observations? it would be interesting to see them as part of this AAR. Looks like the forts didn't do well enough and it appears to me that the soviets appeared to have way too much coordination in their counterattack during the blizzard and during their whole defesne. In 1941 the soviet command structure was poor and improved steadily throughout the war (mostly due to the school of hard knocks in 1941). Also, did the blizzard affect the soviet at all? Having been on an ARTEP during a blizzard in Germany (in modern tanks mind you), you cannot operate at any level of efficiency and coordination. May need to be an increase in the modifier for the soviets movement as well during blizzard? Don't know, guess you will find out in your next round!

Viel Gluck!

Well Lee has done a great job showing the game. And why even at alpha testing now, you will be tested at this game after you get it. Granted he made mistakes, as we all do, and they did in the war... Ah, but thats we replay the game, we love to think we could do better...

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Elmo aka Lee,

...

A couple of items...are you going to send the designers some notes with your observations? ... Also, did the blizzard affect the soviet at all? Having been on an ARTEP during a blizzard in Germany (in modern tanks mind you), you cannot operate at any level of efficiency and coordination. May need to be an increase in the modifier for the soviets movement as well during blizzard? Don't know, guess you will find out in your next round!

Viel Gluck!

Yes I have been discussing the AAR with the team along the way and Joel was following it. The Soviets were well prepared for winter and don't suffer any negative effects other than the standard movement penalties for bad weather. As with just about everything in alpha this could be adjusted after looking at test results.

Glad you liked the AAR.

Very nice AAR (as i already said before), but nobody seems to ask the really important question:

When do you start the next one ?

I'll be bug hunting for a while so maybe one of the other testers will get one going eventually.  And we'll probably have a PBEM style AAR between two players once that gets implemented.

OK - so I was wrong about AGC not being destroyed!   My apologies to those with greater experience who predicted that the Bear would bite your head off.

This has been great fun - and may thanks.   I don't know what I'll do to distract myself from working now!   It's also been really interesting and has me hungry for more - both more testing insights and for the thing itself.   I don't think I'll be able resist micro managing those support units.

I'm still intrigued to know about digging in - not so much the fortified regions, which I think someone said should ideally be set up behind the front line as a switch line.   It's the infantry flanks of AGC that were only at level 1 entrenchment when the big bad thing started, despite being static for several weeks.   Do you need to order them to dig in or does it happen naturally, as it were?   And why no gradual increase in level?    Static units would naturally move from fox holes,to simple trenches, to more elaborate trench systems with wooden bunkers and wire, with mines etc without a great deal of extra resource from HQ, wouldn't they?   And the troops would 'find' stuff to keep them warm, improvise stoves in the bunkers and shelters etc and would fight like hell to stop being driven into the howling wastes....Many tactical battles were fought for the posession of shelter,,with death to the losers.  

It seemed to me that your line regiments got kicked out of their 'prepared' positions too easily.     (No problem if they were only in the rudimentary defence positions just off the march).   What do you think?

Thanks again
Stuart

Thanks for a great AAR Lee. It has provided us all with a really good insight into the game mechanics etc.
 
[:)]

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger

...Do you need to order them to dig in or does it happen naturally, as it were?   And why no gradual increase in level?    ...What do you think?

Thanks again
Stuart

Fortifications do increase gradually over time and you don't order units to dig in. There are many factors involved for example: unit experience and fatigue, any available engineers, proximity of the enemy (being adjacent really slows the process), the current fort level of the hex (as it goes up it takes longer to build the next level), availability of city labor, terrain (max level is 3 in swamp). There are probably other factors but hopefully that gives you an idea of what is involved.

The Soviets did seem to be quite strong suddenly in winter, even though the average Rifle division still only had an attack strength of 2 according to the screenshots. German defensive strength didn't really seem to have much of an impact.

Your reserve, like that Panzer division in Smolensk, also didn't seem to do anything at all, whilst the Soviets were not really troubled by the winter.

The effectiveness of Rifle formations might be too high in the blizzard. Even if they had adequate winter gear (which is a big if considering the state Soviet logistics were in at the end of 1941, and considering that in the Winter War frostbite casualties were fairly serious), their tactical doctrine (or lack thereof I should say) would still quickly nullify an relative increase in strength due to having that winter equipment. The Germans might be freezing, but they still have a solid operational and tactical doctrine. The Soviets, even though not freezing, wouldn't suddenly become expert tacticians. For example, the Soviet way of removing Germans from a village was to send groups of men out to literally stamp a path into the snow towards the German-held village (predictably, casualties were horrible in those groups), human-waving to reach the village and then cleaning the village house by house.

Considering that most of elmo's formations were in a much better shape than their historical counterparts if the casualty figures are an indication, Soviet effectiveness against almost full strength German formations might be too high currently.

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

The Soviets did seem to be quite strong suddenly in winter, even though the average Rifle division still only had an attack strength of 2 according to the screenshots. German defensive strength didn't really seem to have much of an impact.

Your reserve, like that Panzer division in Smolensk, also didn't seem to do anything at all, whilst the Soviets were not really troubled by the winter.

The effectiveness of Rifle formations might be too high in the blizzard. Even if they had adequate winter gear (which is a big if considering the state Soviet logistics were in at the end of 1941, and considering that in the Winter War frostbite casualties were fairly serious), their tactical doctrine (or lack thereof I should say) would still quickly nullify an relative increase in strength due to having that winter equipment. The Germans might be freezing, but they still have a solid operational and tactical doctrine. The Soviets, even though not freezing, wouldn't suddenly become expert tacticians. For example, the Soviet way of removing Germans from a village was to send groups of men out to literally stamp a path into the snow towards the German-held village (predictably, casualties were horrible in those groups), human-waving to reach the village and then cleaning the village house by house.

Considering that most of elmo's formations were in a much better shape than their historical counterparts if the casualty figures are an indication, Soviet effectiveness against almost full strength German formations might be too high currently.

He was playing on the challenging difficulty level, not historical. It is hard to make too many assumptions from this.

He was playing on the challenging difficulty level, not historical. It is hard to make too many assumptions from this.

The difficulty selection screen elmo posted on page 7 didn't show any actual combat modifiers, so it seems the combat strength is the same (and still only 2 for a Rifle division).

I have to agree with ComradeP: While the Germans weren't adequately prepared, there's nothing to suggest that conversely the Soviets could fight better in blizzards than in clear weather. This "winter warrior" approach appears just a bit contrived, if that is what's going on. Definitely weaken the Germans, but no one fights well in bitter cold; IOW I don't think it should be particularly effective for any side to launch wholesale winter offensives.

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

I have to agree with ComradeP: While the Germans weren't adequately prepared, there's nothing to suggest that conversely the Soviets could fight better in blizzards than in clear weather. This "winter warrior" approach appears just a bit contrived, if that is what's going on. Definitely weaken the Germans, but no one fights well in bitter cold; IOW I don't think it should be particularly effective for any side to launch wholesale winter offensives.

But I think the Russians did in the winter of 41-42, the winter of 42-43, the winter of 43-44 and (less effectively) the winter of 44-45 [:)]

Thank you for the informative AAR there Elmo, it has hooked me into this game.

I think that your Barbarossa campaign has shown the faulty overall German strategy in Russia. The Germans believed that could defeat the Russians through Vernichtungschlacht (strategic military victory in one single campaign), as they had the Poles, and the French. But the reality was that the Russian Army just had too many reserves to defeated in one campaign. That however high the level of German tactical excellence was, and no matter how many of the Russian Hordes they destroyed in the early battles. It would take two, or maybe even three campaigns to destroy the Russian Forces, and achieve Germany's strategic aims.

DP.

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Thank you for the informative AAR there Elmo, it has hooked me into this game.

...

DP.

Glad you liked it. It was a lot of fun for me too.

It's...it's over???  What am I supposed to read with my morning coffee now?

I am afraid that this game will be like all the other east front games. The germans always give up in December of 41, Elmo gave up where they all do.

You do know this was just an Alpha test, right?

You have obviously not run across any longterm grand campaign players before, there a lot of us around, just check the War in the Pacific AE Forums. Also Elmo's task was to test the Barbarossa campaign, and thats exactly what He did, and with a excellent AAR to boot.

ORIGINAL: doktor

It's...it's over???  What am I supposed to read with my morning coffee now?

We'll have another AAR coming soon I'm sure.