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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 18, 43
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Sub attack near Pagan at 113,92

Japanese Ships
xAK Tazima Maru
PB Okuyo Maru
xAK Montreal Maru
xAK Hauraki Maru
xAK Bordeaux Maru
xAK Atlas Maru
xAK Tokiwa Maru
xAK Lyons Maru
PB Yomei Maru
PB Yamabato Maru
PB Tokati Maru
PB Santos Maru

Allied Ships
SS Guardfish

big supply convoy carrying nearly 100k tons of supply for Truk... there are 12 escorts... useless against an earlier spotted sub...


SS Guardfish launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Tazima Maru
Guardfish diving deep ....
PB Yomei Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Yamabato Maru fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Tokati Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Santos Maru attacking submerged sub ....
PB Yomei Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Tokati Maru fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Santos Maru fails to find sub and abandons search
PB Yomei Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Yomei Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Yomei Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
PB Yomei Maru fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 4

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed

in all those years I have never received an answer or at least any info about what the hell the air team was thinking when we see 10% of each sweep coming in as a silly fragment all the time... what a non working routine that is... couple it with the all deciding dive and 4 Franks dive on helpless Warhawks and trash them...


CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 10 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes



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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 37

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
35 x Ki-84a Frank sweeping at 31000 feet *

here's the rest of the Franks... all that counts in the air routine is the dive, it has never changed... never... get the alt advantage, win... the hapless Warhawks can't even reach that high and are chanceless, we get a 9:0 in kills...


CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 25000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 56 minutes

If you are sweeping that high, those P-40s should go very low or stagger them if possible.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you are sweeping that high, those P-40s should go very low or stagger them if possible.

it wouldn't help them, it wouldn't matter even if they were at 1k because they suffer from the dive without it ending, no matter if from 31k to 30k or from 31k to 1k... 10ft higher and you get the dive

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you are sweeping that high, those P-40s should go very low or stagger them if possible.

it wouldn't help them, it wouldn't matter even if they were at 1k because they suffer from the dive without it ending, no matter if from 31k to 30k or from 31k to 1k... 10ft higher and you get the dive

But then there may be no combat or for not as long.

Well, I think more than the dive, but not knowing the allied CAP hard to say. But with appropriate staggering, they should be able to lower their losses.

Having said that, the Frank far out reaches the P40: faster, more manouvrable, better climb, …

Castor is just ranting here … he knows there is more than the dive else he would begin losing in mid'43 to the F4U and P47/P38 … but he doesn't, so clearly there is more than the dive. as well he knows ... [;)]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Well, I think more than the dive, but not knowing the allied CAP hard to say. But with appropriate staggering, they should be able to lower their losses.

Having said that, the Frank far out reaches the P40: faster, more manouvrable, better climb, …

Castor is just ranting here … he knows there is more than the dive else he would begin losing in mid'43 to the F4U and P47/P38 … but he doesn't, so clearly there is more than the dive. as well he knows ... [;)]

never said there isn't anything else than the dive, I'm always saying the dive is the most important. Well knowing that people then came up saying a Nate diving on a P-47 still doesn't win.

If that wouldn't be the case, why is every PBEM seeking to win the altitude race?

As to the engagement above, hard to stager the CAP with a single squadron on CAP.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If that wouldn't be the case, why is every PBEM seeking to win the altitude race?

I have never, ever tried to win the altitude race.[:)]

I rank many things over the dive speed, maneuver, guns, pilot training, leadership, radar, tactics.

Split the unit into thirds, each with a different but complimentary altitude.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If that wouldn't be the case, why is every PBEM seeking to win the altitude race?

I have never, ever tried to win the altitude race.[:)]

I rank many things over the dive speed, maneuver, guns, pilot training, leadership, radar, tactics.

Eric would agree with this I believe as well.

The counter(s) to the dive are both numerous, well developed, and highly successful. Proving once again how robust the ACM the Ian developed truly is.

The race to altitude has been quite over now for 3 or 4 years …

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If that wouldn't be the case, why is every PBEM seeking to win the altitude race?

I have never, ever tried to win the altitude race.[:)]

I rank many things over the dive speed, maneuver, guns, pilot training, leadership, radar, tactics.

No. That's only true if you compare apples and oranges. P-47 flown by a 80 skilled pilot vs a Nate flown by a 30 skilled replacement rookie? Wow, the P-47 wins high without having the dive.

If you don't compare apples and oranges and have equal aircraft x and y flown by equal pilot x and y the one that get's the dive wins. It doesn't win by a margin, it's winning huge. If you haven't tried to win the altitude race then you have either took more losses than you should or you have scored less kills than you should. Of course all is fine if your opponent(s) aren't trying to go high either and you all meet at 10000ft.

The dive in the so called airroutine is way overrated to what the bounce was in real life. I'm not saying it shouldn't be a real advantage but turning something like a 2-4:1 kill rate into ranges of 8-10:1 due to the dive is ridicoulos.

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Split the unit into thirds, each with a different but complimentary altitude.

Lol, why did I know that this would be the answer? Splitting a single squadron into 9/9/9 and you think it would have turned that massacre into something like an okayish outcome? Serious?

It would be Frank diving on Warhawk from unit A then unit B then unit C. The thing like layered CAP is something that only works when you have numbers. And now hold on. Doing tests the difference was minimal (although notable) when having layered CAP and non layered CAP against sweeps. What's the most important thing in the end? Grigsby Game... NUMBERS... as soon as the numbers are high enough the strato sweep finally ends and the "xy firing from behind BOOOM BOOOM BOOOM thing" stops and turns into reasonable outcomes.

Delete that dive from the airroutine ten years ago (when they finally admitted something was wrong after so many years of complaining) and you get reasonable outcomes and not those silly loops.

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: castor troy

If that wouldn't be the case, why is every PBEM seeking to win the altitude race?

I have never, ever tried to win the altitude race.[:)]

I rank many things over the dive speed, maneuver, guns, pilot training, leadership, radar, tactics.

Eric would agree with this I believe as well.

The counter(s) to the dive are both numerous, well developed, and highly successful. Proving once again how robust the ACM the Ian developed truly is.

The race to altitude has been quite over now for 3 or 4 years …

totally disagree here. Othern than The Elf admitting that something was wrong (after years of playing one of the three monkeys) there was never a change.[&:]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 20, 43
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Submarine attack near North Male at 23,48

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
LST 9, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

unescorted LST going towards Ceylon is sunk by one of our patrolling subs there...


LST 9 is sighted by SS I-171
SS I-171 attacking on the surface


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Sub attack near Shimushiri-jima at 131,51

Japanese Ships
xAK Tokusima Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SC CHa-38
SC CHa-7
SC CHa-26
SC CHa-15

Allied Ships
SS Blackfish

USN gets a revenge though...

SS Blackfish launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Tokusima Maru
SC CHa-26 fails to find sub and abandons search
SC CHa-15 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC CHa-15 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC CHa-15 attacking submerged sub ....
SC CHa-15 is out of ASW ammo
SC CHa-15 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC CHa-15 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 21, 43
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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 35

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

and here we are... perfectly suiting above's discussion about the altitude race, dive idiocy or whatever you wanna call it as we have the Warhawks at 25000ft replaced with Thuds at strato altitude higher than the Franks could ever reach... result is easy, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive, the dive until some 9 or 10 Franks are hit until the dive ENDED... guess what! Without the dive the 10:0 for the Thuds turned into a 1:1 with another three hits on the Franks and three dead Thunderbolts...

no, the dive isn't the most important thing, it sure isn't... [8|]


CAP engaged:
348th FG/341st FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 7 scrambling)
16 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 37000 [>:][>:][>:]
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 22, 43
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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 30

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

the reason for my sweep(s) are several small convoys going to Horn Island and today we have also ordered the bombers to participate... first the sweeps... feeling like a scratched vinyl record... [>:][8|]

the Georges show up, the P-47 still at max alt... must be a bad idea of Mundy? no it isn't... they get the DIVE... result? Couple of Georges shot down... dive ENDS as 13 P-47 aren't just enough to keep diving on 2,5 times more Georges and voila, we start downing some Thuds... remember my comment above? Grigsby Game? Numbers?


CAP engaged:
348th FG/341st FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 4 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 37000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes



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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 9

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

NO dive for the Thuds... they suffer...

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
348th FG/341st FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 37000 , scrambling fighters between 25072 and 29072.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 181 minutes



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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 9

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 31000 feet



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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 42

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
42 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 31000 feet *



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 15
Ki-84a Frank x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAKL De Klerk
xAKL Coolana
xAKL Mulcra
xAKL Patras, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Noora, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

that was great, the training squadron then participated downing a Frank... well, yes... P-40K diving on Frank, shooting from behind... boom, dead...

in my previous games I always used the IJNAF bombers on low nav strikes 1000ft where they only carried halve their bombload and had some good results... in this game I decided to train them on nav bombing at 2-3000ft to see them carrying their full bomb load as I thought they would do even better but the result is totally disappointing... 15 Kates at 3000ft dropping two bombs each would annihilate such a convoy, the Helens (all 70 nav skill) score 3 hits out of 60 bombs...


Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40K Warhawk (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 25000.
Raid is overhead

Training flight from 49th FG/8th FS has been caught up in attack
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAKL Noora


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 34
Ki-84a Frank x 60

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 1

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AM Katoomba
xAKL Luzon
xAKL Sinabang
PC Melinga, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Mulcra
xAP Perak, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Carroo
AM Townsville
xAKL Kindur
xAKL Mulubinda
xAP Kedah

Allied ground losses:
70 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

weather is ok for bombing but the Helens just suck... 2 hits out of 136 bombs? looks like training all my bomber crews on nav bomb was wrong which would totally hamper my efforts...


Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
18 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 8000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 54 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring PC Melinga


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Morning Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 1

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Noora, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Matthew Flinders
PC Comara

seeing only that dozen P-47 on CAP I thought we would wreck havoc on the enemy convoys as I had 81 bombers ordered to attack but the outcome is nothing but totally disappointing... can lower the alt by another 1000ft but that's it...


Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40K Warhawk (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Raid is overhead

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAKL Noora


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Morning Air attack on Horn Island , at 91,128

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 28

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 1

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 31000 feet

CAP engaged:
49th FG/8th FS with P-40K Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 25000 , scrambling fighters to 3000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes



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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 27
Ki-84a Frank x 49

Allied aircraft
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAKL De Klerk, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAKL Pelton Bank
AM Townsville
xAKL Kindur
xAKL Corrimal, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Karuah
xAKL Sinabang, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

even better weather during the afternoon but the result isn't getting better...


Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
12 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
348th FG/341st FS with P-47D2 Thunderbolt (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 37000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 37000.
Raid is overhead

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAKL De Klerk
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAKL Sinabang


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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 23

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Luzon
PC Carroo, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Prusa, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Allied ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Horn Island at 91,128

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 5 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Koonda
xAKL Argus
xAKL Meroendoeng

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 3000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 250 kg SAP Bomb


the P-47 win high during the dive phase and are then overwhelmed by numbers... the dive ain't mattering I hear people saying...

When you bomb ships from horizontal 3000 feet, you get shot by AAMG flak. Even the smallest xAKLs should have now 0.5inch AAMGs with 3500 feet ceiling. Maybe this disrupts targeting of your bomber crews?

ORIGINAL: Yaab

When you bomb ships from horizontal 3000 feet, you get shot by AAMG flak. Even the smallest xAKLs should have now 0.5inch AAMGs with 3500 feet ceiling. Maybe this disrupts targeting of your bomber crews?

nah, I doubt flak was a prob there, those targets were the perfect training tragets. Those xAKL had literally no AA at all. Didn't have a single damaged bomber by AA fire. If that kind of AA disrupts my bombers enough to get an insanely low hit rate against those slow moving ships then real AA makes them miss any warship 100% of the time.

I almost fear I have missed some change when Army bombers get a malus from attacking ships as Mundy complained earlier that his Army bombers fail to hit any shipping no matter how high they are trained. That would be a real bummer.[&:]

Using Kates in that bomb mode from the same altitude results in insanely high hit rates, yet my equally skilled Helens should be getting even better hit rates as they carry twice the bomb load if they aren't treated different in the code.

All torpedo bombers are bugged when they use bombs on naval attack. You can get 50% hit rates from 13,000 feet with them.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=

ORIGINAL: Yaab

All torpedo bombers are bugged when they use bombs on naval attack. You can get 50% hit rates from 13,000 feet with them.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=

I have seen that thread earlier but I can't confirm it. Not because I think the hit rate isn't way too high but because I had the same results with level bombers too.

Now that brings me back to the question why my Helens were such a failure attacking those xAKL.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Lowpe




I have never, ever tried to win the altitude race.[:)]

I rank many things over the dive speed, maneuver, guns, pilot training, leadership, radar, tactics.

Eric would agree with this I believe as well.

The counter(s) to the dive are both numerous, well developed, and highly successful. Proving once again how robust the ACM the Ian developed truly is.

The race to altitude has been quite over now for 3 or 4 years …

totally disagree here. Othern than The Elf admitting that something was wrong (after years of playing one of the three monkeys) there was never a change.[&:]

Castor,

You don't have to agree, but don't ever play any of the better players now as the allies or you will not like your outcome in the air war at all. Read any obvert or lowpe AAR's in particular for discussions about CAP strategies (you will need to go back a couple or 3 years ago).

While you were gone, the dive was completely solved. Put your Bolts at max altitude sweep against the better players now, and you will soon have no Bolts and for very comparable losses on the IJ side (which is saying something because the IJ planes are quite inferior to the Bolt as we well know). search for "layered CAP" ... the counter actually induces the dive tactic to kill the attacker.

I know you don't believe, but you should stop ranting about the "dive". The issue is now known to be the player, not the game. [;)] And yes, Ian has stopped by in the interim to check it out ...