Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: traskott

Sound interesting.....

Have u considered adding some SS? Placed at Singa at 7th december they should give the japanese player some headaches...

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

See my PM for thoughts/suggestions.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
How is that for a bolstering of the Indian Ocean Forces??!!

2. We have a TF departing Singapore heading for Ceylon. This TF has a CL, 2 AP and 3 AK.

ORIGINAL: aga2008

ORIGINAL: sanderz

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Hi Cavalry.

1. If he has George in that early, that would be over 16 months from when it should appear. WOW. He must have spent a fortune to bring it forward. Doesn't help you but I find that amazing to have it so early. We have adjusted it backwards in BTS and BTSL and will in RA. Doesn't help you in this version though.

comments based on the current version of the mod (BTSL 4.5)and without doing any math......

1) is this because the N1K2-A George upgrades from the Zero - hence you can start researching it from the getgo by converting fully built A6M2 factories directly to the George?

2) from a jap economic point of view having the George upgrade from the Zero would seem to make the Sam largely redundant (as you can get the George so much quicker) - also there seems no reason to research the N1K1-J George as it can be bypassed by going the Zero route

as I'm cavalry's opponent let me add my view on this topic:

ad 1: No research was done using the described approach (switching at zero cost from Zero research to George research). All George research started at 0. I never saw a possible switch from the A6M line to N1K line research at zero cost. But actually I can't remember with which version of RA we started so it may be that something like that was possible. Anyway - and you have to trust me on that - that was never done in this game.
If you look below, it took more than 300 days to get the first month of advancement. If I had used an existing switch it wouldn't have taken that long.

In this history of the research the leftmost column is the turn number(taken from tracker). Please note that in the end just 6 turns were needed to advance N1K2 one more month. And you can do your math to find out what that cost me...

317 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 4/43 Information
345 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 3/43 Information
371 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 2/43 Information
389 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 1/43 Information
399 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 7/44 Information
407 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 6/44 Information
413 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 5/44 Information
421 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 4/44 Information
427 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 3/44 Information
435 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 2/44 Information
443 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 1/44 Information
449 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 12/43 Information
457 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 11/43 Information
463 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 10/43 Information
471 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 9/43 Information
477 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 8/43 Information
485 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 7/43 Information
493 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 6/43 Information
499 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 5/43 Information

ad 2: A7M uses Ha-43 therefore getting the engine bonus is much more difficult. In addition - the N1K1 which is the predecessor for N1K2 - comes much earlier and means you'll inherit fully repaired research facilities for N1K2 as soon as N1K1 is available. And this in turn is much earlier than for Sam. That - and not any exploitation of a possible bug in the mod - is the reason of choosing George instead of Sam.

as a bonus also see the reasearch history for Ha-45 - also valuable for Frank research ..

81 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 8/43 Information
121 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 7/43 Information
149 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 6/43 Information
177 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 5/43 Information
205 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 4/43 Information
233 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 3/43 Information
277 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 2/43 Information
315 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 1/43 Information
335 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 12/42 Information
355 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 11/42 Information

ORIGINAL: Falken

Hi John,

Thanks for the update...appreciate the dedication to this mod. Kitakami and I are staying up to date, and i've just loaded v5.0.

Quick question for you, I seem to have lost the images for the BB Hitachi and BB Owari. Thoughts?

Thanks again,
Dave...

ORIGINAL: sanderz

Regarding this.....

2. We have a TF departing Singapore heading for Ceylon. This TF has a CL, 2 AP and 3 AK.

TF428 only has one of the 3 xAK mentioned

ORIGINAL: sanderz

ORIGINAL: aga2008

ORIGINAL: sanderz



comments based on the current version of the mod (BTSL 4.5)and without doing any math......

1) is this because the N1K2-A George upgrades from the Zero - hence you can start researching it from the getgo by converting fully built A6M2 factories directly to the George?

2) from a jap economic point of view having the George upgrade from the Zero would seem to make the Sam largely redundant (as you can get the George so much quicker) - also there seems no reason to research the N1K1-J George as it can be bypassed by going the Zero route

as I'm cavalry's opponent let me add my view on this topic:

ad 1: No research was done using the described approach (switching at zero cost from Zero research to George research). All George research started at 0. I never saw a possible switch from the A6M line to N1K line research at zero cost. But actually I can't remember with which version of RA we started so it may be that something like that was possible. Anyway - and you have to trust me on that - that was never done in this game.
If you look below, it took more than 300 days to get the first month of advancement. If I had used an existing switch it wouldn't have taken that long.

In this history of the research the leftmost column is the turn number(taken from tracker). Please note that in the end just 6 turns were needed to advance N1K2 one more month. And you can do your math to find out what that cost me...

317 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 4/43 Information
345 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 3/43 Information
371 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 2/43 Information
389 Aircraft N1K1-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 1/43 Information
399 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 7/44 Information
407 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 6/44 Information
413 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 5/44 Information
421 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 4/44 Information
427 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 3/44 Information
435 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 2/44 Information
443 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 1/44 Information
449 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 12/43 Information
457 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 11/43 Information
463 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 10/43 Information
471 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 9/43 Information
477 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 8/43 Information
485 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 7/43 Information
493 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 6/43 Information
499 Aircraft N1K2-J George Aircraft R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 5/43 Information

ad 2: A7M uses Ha-43 therefore getting the engine bonus is much more difficult. In addition - the N1K1 which is the predecessor for N1K2 - comes much earlier and means you'll inherit fully repaired research facilities for N1K2 as soon as N1K1 is available. And this in turn is much earlier than for Sam. That - and not any exploitation of a possible bug in the mod - is the reason of choosing George instead of Sam.

as a bonus also see the reasearch history for Ha-45 - also valuable for Frank research ..

81 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 8/43 Information
121 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 7/43 Information
149 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 6/43 Information
177 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 5/43 Information
205 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 4/43 Information
233 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 3/43 Information
277 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 2/43 Information
315 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 1/43 Information
335 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 12/42 Information
355 Engine Nakajima Ha-45 Engine R&D Accelerated Production accelerated to 11/42 Information

Just had another look at the stats for the various navy fighters and the above strategy seems very viable - i can't see any reason to ever build/research the Sam or Jack when George is better on most stats and is CV capable. You could even make it the only navy fighter to research (other than early Zeros) and ignore J6/J7 i.e. go for pure volume of Georges and win the game before the J6/J7 could become a factor.

Having said all that i am a long long way from being knowledgeable about this game and would welcome some input on whether the above is anywhere near correct.

Thanks