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RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:43 pm
by Cribtop
Well, Mike, if I've gotten you jazzed about something other than the production system then my AAR has officially done its job. [:D]
Here is North & Central China.
1 - 5 Divisions, approximately 2200 AV, will crash over the river at the hex indicated, which is lightly defended. Intention is to cut off the larger KMT stack in the mountains and threaten Kienko in order to force CF to commit his strategic reserve at Chunkging here. Note that 32 LCUs are still trapped at Tienshui and slowly starving.
2 - The ongoing chaos in Central China is mostly a diversion. The hex on the right has 2 trapped KMT corps. CF was trying to rescue them with a 14 LCU stack, now in the middle hex, when we slipped about 900 AV behind him in the hex on the right, cutting him off from Changsha.

RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:46 pm
by Mike Solli
Thanks! No one realizes that I really like the tactical, operational and strategic part of the game as well. [:D]
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:57 pm
by Cribtop
You're just so much better than us at logistics we all get jealous. [;)]
Here is the meat of the offensive in Southern China.
1 - 17th and 23rd Armies, leading Six crack divisions (4 from Java, 2 slightly less elite divisions from Manchukuo) will attack out of Canton toward Wuchow, Kweilin and Liuchow. These targets are lightly defended (for example, there is only 1 LCU at Kweilin). The exact march path will depend on circumstances, but the arrows give an idea. This pincer will move as far up the good road out of Liuchow as possible. Intention is to isolate the entire Changsha front. I don't know whether CF will let us get to Kweiyang. If he does, that's the ultimate goal. If not, we can go on the defensive at Liuchow and use the good road out of Kweilin to descend on the 3 cities near Changsha, which are held by 1 LCU each. The strategic goal of the Op is to capture as much of south and central China as possible in order to cripple China's industry and allow us to shift lots of troops to the perimeter in the Pacific, DEI and Burma.
2 - 2 Divisions under 13th Army, 100% prepped for Kanshien, will advance toward that strongly held city, while another restricted division marches on Canton to serve as operational reserve. Intention here is to either pin the enemy's Kanshien stack (11 LCUs) or to grab the city if CF tries to maneuver against the flank of our main advance and thus prevent interference there.

RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:12 pm
by Cribtop
A little bit of ancillary data.
Air groups. We have the elite Helen/Lily II wing that recently destroyed an enemy unit on the ground at Bengkalis in 1 day at Canton, supported by Oscars. In central China, we have a horde of Lily Is and Oscars. Some of them may shift south or even north to Sian to support the northern pincer. Air support points from base forces is an issue, but we have done what we can.
Supply. A special convoy of 150K supply is just now passing south of Takao en route for Canton to support the offensive. They are likely to return to Tokyo and re-load.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:17 pm
by Mike Solli
Interesting. Have you considered the possibility of using paratroopers to try to take Kweilin and cut the rail line and potential reinforcements? I'm beginning to think in a 3 dimensional way to work out new ways to tackle old problems that our adversaries are already aware we are going to do. Once you take the town, you can fly in reinforcements to help defend the joint.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:20 pm
by Cribtop
Hehe. Funny you should mention it. We have a para unit and transports standing by. I don't think by themselves they could take a city defended by even 1 KMT LCU, but the idea is to keep them in reserve and drop them on whatever base CF makes his MLR in order to obtain the AV halving effect at the key juncture.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:41 pm
by Mike Solli
That AV halving effect doesn't exist. I got that straight from the horse's mouth (either Andy Mac or michaelm, can't remember which).
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:42 pm
by Mike Solli
It was Andy. Here's his response to the question of whether or not a paratrooper landing cuts defending AV in half:
"As far as I am aware does not halve defender AV but does force a bombardment attack by defender."
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:46 pm
by Cribtop
Well, crap. Still, I'm glad you shared this with me so I won't rely on it. In that case I will bomb Kweilin to see exactly what's there. If it's just a base force we may have a go with a full on airborn assault.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:07 pm
by Mike Solli
Yeah, I'm sure an airborne unit can take on a Chinese BF. I'd have a brigade or regiment available to reinforce as well. Those roads there are slow going. The paratroopers might have to stay awhile.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:59 pm
by jrcar
First bring Armour, as much as you can. This decimates Chinese units and they can't fight back effectively against it.
Agree with the 3rd dimension, I'm a big fan of striking deep and interdicting using paras.
Finally Japanese doctrine should see small flanking units (or ocasionally a big one) seeking the flank and rear of defended locations in support of the main frontal attack.
Agree with bringing in supply to help, this is where the Japanese player can accept casulties and wear down the massed Chinese over a series of days. The Japanese supply advantage can replace the casulties, which the Chinese can't.
Cheers
Rob
Good luck!
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:17 pm
by Cribtop
Thanks Rob. Armor and flanking has been my bread and butter in China so far. I call it the "Joe Johnston" war after the North Georgia campaign where Sherman flanked Johnston out of one position after another. I've got a goodly number of tanks for combat and armored car units for flanking.
As to the paras, I guess even a failed drop at Kweilin would cut the rail line so long as the para unit survives. Hmmm.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:59 pm
by Capt. Harlock
I call it the "Joe Johnston" war after the North Georgia campaign where Sherman flanked Johnston out of one position after another.
True -- and yet Johnston always seemed to have another position to fall back to. Let's see if Cuttlefish has his fall-backs planned as well.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:56 pm
by Cribtop
I suspect he will. This is the rare situation where terrain is of strategic importance. The question will be how much supply-generating capacity I can occupy or isolate before the offensive culminates. Should be a fun ride!
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:04 pm
by Mike Solli
Oh yeah. Does CF have the turn right now?
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:07 pm
by Cribtop
June 14, 1942
Another super quiet day, which suits Cribtop HQ fine at the moment. In my e-mail to Cuttles he mentioned that he and Erstad once had a turn so quiet that the combat report was blank! I joked they were just giving peace a chance. [:D]
Subs
Most subs are at or near the gathering bases. We will refit and launch flotilla wolfpacks soon.
4th Fleet
No change.
SE Fleet
90th Regiment begins to unload at Munda Point.
14th Army
No change.
16th Army
Babar occupied by rowboat.
25th Army
MKB moves toward the straits between Palawan and Borneo. The CVs will be transferred next turn to operational control of SE Fleet although they will refit for a time at Babeldoab.
15th Army
We continue to feed reinforcements into this AO and are awaiting a better moon for an effort at Chittagong.
China
We begin to unload at Canton. Time is of the essence.
CF has marched an LCU into the isolated hex in central China discussed in the recent screenie. This is fine as we want him focused here and not elsewhere.
5th Fleet
Amchitka makes level 2 airfield. Building is slow here as we don't want to waste construction units on a strictly defensive theater.
Other
We are preparing a huge supply convoy at Tokyo that will be used to dump supply at Singers for general purposes and at specific bases where industry is to be repaired or expanded. We will repair Oil and increase some HI as suggested recently by nygiants and Mike Solli.
Also a question. What is the optimal use of construction engineers? Don't worry about ports and airfield levels, I'm strictly talking forts. I have 3 unit groups working perimeter bases with the idea they will slowly build rear bases as they finish the front line. Should you build to level 4 forts or all the way to 6 (assuming we aren't talking about the few bases you want to go to level 9)? What is the best balance between maximum defense for each base and maximum number of built up bases? Obviously organic engineers would continue to work on forts at a slower base if we stop below 6. Thoughts?
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:14 pm
by Cribtop
ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
Oh yeah. Does CF have the turn right now?
Yes, but it will take another day or so to unload and then a few more to march on Wuchow, so the fireworks won't start tomorrow, really.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:08 pm
by jrcar
Also a question. What is the optimal use of construction engineers? Don't worry about ports and airfield levels, I'm strictly talking forts. I have 3 unit groups working perimeter bases with the idea they will slowly build rear bases as they finish the front line. Should you build to level 4 forts or all the way to 6 (assuming we aren't talking about the few bases you want to go to level 9)? What is the best balance between maximum defense for each base and maximum number of built up bases? Obviously organic engineers would continue to work on forts at a slower base if we stop below 6. Thoughts?
"clusters" of 2-3 well built bases (within 2 hex, preferably 1 hex) separated by 6-8 hex (allows fighters from one cluster to support another) to upto 12-14 (allows escorted strikes). Basically a strong point defence. Build them to level 6 forts IMHO.
Level 6 airfields appear optimal, although 7 are nice. Ports are less critical as the Japanese as you don't have the heavy baggage that the Allies do in their divisions (all those Ice cream machines).
This does allow the Allies to land in the "gaps", but then they have to build them up from almost nothing... which they can do but they are vulnerable and they need to commit significant assets during this phase. Ultimately you can't really stop the Allies, so you want to inflict delay on them at every step.
A nice "chequer" style defence in depth is possible in the DEI and SWPAC, but CENTPAC is a bit harder to achieve.
As Japan I think you need to create as much depth to the defence as possible, a hard, but thin crust is easily broken, depth give tactical and operational advantages for the counter attack.
Cheers
Rob
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:32 am
by Cribtop
Agreed in principle. I guess I'm just getting a little nervous at how long it takes 3 IJA construction units to build up to level 6. The first 3 levels come quickly but then it takes longer for 4-6. Is it better to use 4 engineer units? 5? 6? Is there an optimum number of engineer squads to assign to build up to level 6 forts as quickly as possible is the question.
RE: Wait, I can't read Cuttlefish's new AAR? - Cribtop (J) vs CF (A)
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:35 am
by ny59giants
Of course the more engineers the better. [:D] As Japan, I like to use about 150 engineers for what you are trying to do. Look for your Ind Eng Rgt. Many start in Manchuria. If doing island bases, ship them in, do what needs to be done and then move on.