Matrix Games Forums

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: obvert
Although during the game I was focused on his naval losses (and constant forward use of the USN in the Aleutians) as the decisive factor in turning the tide, it seems the land battles had a much larger impact on the VP outcome. I guess I'm curious how much of that is China, and how much is captured bases in the Aleutians and Ceylon that the IJN made possible?

Chinese starting army is worth roughly 8-9k VPs in standard scenarios. It was not destroyed in its entirety yet, but then revivals brought some new vps into the fray for Japan to harvest. So a guesstimate of about half of the final LCU VPs coming from China is not far off the mark

Cool. Something I've never bothered to look into since I've never thought about an early AV as a goal. Thanks!

I didn't either, it just happened. I did think about the potential of a 1944 AV however.

In any game where the Japanese player is willing to shoot for AV (and has the skill and experience to do so), Sir Robin looks like a dangerous strategy!

A lot of IJ players poo-poo AV. While it's certainly okay to prefer the long haul, their comments often imply a negative sentiment, as though they were contemplating petting a dog with the mange - "AV? That's something I don't even consider." But the possibility of AV adds a real tautness to the game that makes it even more exciting, IMO. I was really glad to see you take on the challenge.

Auto-victory! Congratulations!

I missed a few posts and was reading past it, like "Adak" - gee, I wonder why he sent a pic of Adak? [:D]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In any game where the Japanese player is willing to shoot for AV (and has the skill and experience to do so), Sir Robin looks like a dangerous strategy!

A lot of IJ players poo-poo AV. While it's certainly okay to prefer the long haul, their comments often imply a negative sentiment, as though they were contemplating petting a dog with the mange - "AV? That's something I don't even consider." But the possibility of AV adds a real tautness to the game that makes it even more exciting, IMO. I was really glad to see you take on the challenge.

You always hope for an opponent wiling to try.[;)] I'm sure it does make the beginning tense and interesting for the Allies.

In the long term it's a huge risk and drain on the Japanese economy, and it also opens so many attacking chances early to exploit for the Allies. For the Japanese to get an AV the Allies have to play their part by chosing to fight, and fighting forward. This wasn't a Sir Robin. There were a lot of important LCUs and ships (and valuable planes) placed in aggressive positions regularly. I think most often that's how AV occurs. The Allies try to bite off a bit too much early.

I think AV is an awesome part of the game, and very necessary. For myself I don't trust that I'd be able to make those risks pay off while still playing for the late game. Some tactically superior players have tried and failed (rader comes to mind). I have a lot of respect for those that try to make it work both tactically and economically as he did, and as Lowpe did here.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In any game where the Japanese player is willing to shoot for AV (and has the skill and experience to do so), Sir Robin looks like a dangerous strategy!

A lot of IJ players poo-poo AV. While it's certainly okay to prefer the long haul, their comments often imply a negative sentiment, as though they were contemplating petting a dog with the mange - "AV? That's something I don't even consider."

Sir Robin would have worked if the Allies used small limited probing early offensives (and the game would have probably been over Jan 1, 1945). But rather this early in the game, the Allies simply can't throw down 2 division and a ton of support units and think the island can hold once naval superiority is lost. Continually reinforcing that failure is what killed the Allies in this game, ihmo.

I think the reason why most Japanese players poo-poo AV is that it is viewed as an either or -- do I play for AV or for late game? In a scenario 1 game, Japan simply is starved economically and with ground troops. The only other player I can think of that has achieved a scenario 1 AV is Mr. Kane who I think has done it twice. Obvert might have been able to do it against Jocke, but decided against going for AV (but that game is now a many patches and betas ago). As I think now about that game, I bet Obvert could have gotten AV if he had tried (I recall a Perth invasion might have done it, throw in strategic bombing of Oz -- which hadn't been done before to the best of my recall and Japan would likely have gotten 4-1 sometime in early 43).

So for a player to start a multi year game with the Japanese goal of AV...and then not achieving that goal...well, then it is really hard for Japan to keep an interest in playing the game since you have spent all Japan's riches early. There have been a lot of JFB's that quit early because of it.

A final word, so much of Japanese defensive strength comes late to the game thru upgrades and reinforcements...that if the Allies can accelerate the timetable Japan simply lacks the forces to defend and simply falls over at an accelerating pace.

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Auto-victory! Congratulations!

I missed a few posts and was reading past it, like "Adak" - gee, I wonder why he sent a pic of Adak? [:D]

Thanks![:)]

Nicely done and a great read (as all your AARs are)

Many thanks Lowpe !!

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think the reason why most Japanese players poo-poo AV is that it is viewed as an either or -- do I play for AV or for late game? In a scenario 1 game, Japan simply is starved economically and with ground troops. The only other player I can think of that has achieved a scenario 1 AV is Mr. Kane who I think has done it twice. Obvert might have been able to do it against Jocke, but decided against going for AV (but that game is now a many patches and betas ago). As I think now about that game, I bet Obvert could have gotten AV if he had tried (I recall a Perth invasion might have done it, throw in strategic bombing of Oz -- which hadn't been done before to the best of my recall and Japan would likely have gotten 4-1 sometime in early 43).

In that game I had to negotiate a truce in China so Jocke would keep playing, so AV was kind of a non-factor considering I wasn't able to fully pursue the gains I'd made in its the beginning. My intention may have changed (as yours in this one) if I'd seen it get closer, and then looked at the menu of available VPs at that stage: OZ resources, Indian LCUs and bases, anything on an isolated island after the major clash that destroyed the Allied CV fleet.

ORIGINAL: obvert
For myself I don't trust that I'd be able to make those risks pay off while still playing for the late game.

It was very, very hard to do, and if the Allies would have pulled back from the Aleutians earlier, probably not possible.

Wargamer sent me a message at the end, stating he thought he could prevent AV when I was still 2000 points short in early Jan. My ability to get those points so quickly before he could rotate and launch another counter offensive or vp thrust. So we were definitely in a race there at the end!

ORIGINAL: obvert
In that game I had to negotiate a truce in China so Jocke would keep playing

I forgot that![:)] Yep, you would have definitely had it then.[:)] Hard to see getting AV without having Chungking.

ORIGINAL: MBF

Nicely done and a great read (as all your AARs are)

Many thanks Lowpe !!

No thanks needed, thank you![:)]

Did you feel that going heavy into Nick squadrons worked out well for you?

What regarding the air war would you do differently?

I like the notion of skipping Helen, seems too meh for me!

Interesting (check)
Informative (check)
Thought provoking (check)

all the marks of a great story teller
Love reading your AARs.
Good luck in the next War.
[&o]

Followed along at work, so few posts but congratulations and hope you continue. (in uttah wah)

ORIGINAL: DanSez

Interesting (check)
Informative (check)
Thought provoking (check)

all the marks of a great story teller
Love reading your AARs.
Good luck in the next War.
[&o]

Thanks Dan, appreciate it![:)]

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Did you feel that going heavy into Nick squadrons worked out well for you?

What regarding the air war would you do differently?

I like the notion of skipping Helen, seems too meh for me!

Yeah, Nicks are exceptionally useful. No regrets there as I didn't need the PP for troop buybacks or buyouts.

Not much in the Air War....I managed to destroy more Allies than Japan lost, which is tough to do. I wanted to pull off some deep firebombing runs in India for kicks (using Nells & Betty) but never did. Probably should have fully destroyed Chungking industry asap.

No real difference other than engine between Sally and Helen I think...r&d is much better off on fighters or Judy.

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Followed along at work, so few posts but congratulations and hope you continue. (in uttah wah)

Thanks, but this game is over as I don't want to see my success turn into another ugly Japanese loss![:D] Seriously, two full games is simply too much for me currently.

Other considerations:

It didn't come into play during this game, but I spent a bit of early PP and lots of time organizing the Honshu/Hokkaido/Sakhalin defenses against both a CV raid targeting industry and an amphibious smash and burn raid. Nothing was undefended (good AA and radar present plus ground troops and a reserve ready in SR mode).

Wenchow and Pakhoi were both patrolled by Rboats and old destroyers with some naval search to prevent any kind of surface resupply.

I used LRCAP a lot in attempts to catch Allied transport & patrol planes, with the only notable success at Adak.

Congrats.

Very impressive as always

ORIGINAL: Encircled


Very impressive as always

Thanks.[:)] Always fighting,not always impressive![:D]