Matrix Games Forums

I've recieved this and would like to know what my opponent did for me to recieve this.

The message is intended to indicate that the other player has reloaded the scenario (and therefore cheated by playing the turn several times) but it is known to be bugged. So you should probably ignore the message.

I get them almost every turn, they're pretty damned annoying [:@]

ORIGINAL: Okimaw
I get them almost every turn, they're pretty damned annoying [:@]

yeah, me too. Okimaw and I are playing with different versions however, so I attributed the messages to that. Possible?

Surely there is some behavior that has caused this. If there is something 'excusable' that may have been done, I simply want to know what it is. If it is still amazingly easy to cheat I would like to know that as well. This was an important issue, as most of the opponents are only known from websites only, and not above suspicion. I had issues like this with aCoW which caused me to stop playing PBEM. Is there anything you can tell me to restore my faith in playing the 'new' version PBEM?

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Surely there is some behavior that has caused this. If there is something 'excusable' that may have been done, I simply want to know what it is.

I haven't PBMed TOAW III so I can't tell you exactly, but the impression I get is that it's hard not to generate this message.

If it is still amazingly easy to cheat I would like to know that as well.

Almost certainly. I wouldn't worry about it. Most people have enough of a sense of morality to prevent them from cheating in a game where winning or losing has no consequences.

ORIGINAL: macgregor
Is there anything you can tell me to restore my faith in playing the 'new' version PBEM?

Not quite. I suppose one way to still cheat is to put the pbl file from your opponent on a floppy and set the floppy to "read only" and reload it from there over and over.

Just a thought.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Not quite. I suppose one way to still cheat is to put the pbl file from your opponent on a floppy and set the floppy to "read only" and reload it from there over and over.

Mm. Not to mention another very nasty exploit which may not be widely known.

Really, I think the idea of making TOAW completely cheat-proof is a fantasy. The best that can be done is making it necessary to premeditate the act. Fewer people will do that. As it is, some of the design functionality has been removed by the efforts to prevent cheating. I can see it getting worse.

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: Okimaw
I get them almost every turn, they're pretty damned annoying [:@]

yeah, me too. Okimaw and I are playing with different versions however, so I attributed the messages to that. Possible?

Actually I've had them with all 14 or so opponents I've had since TOAW 3 was released. I thought it may have something to do with not everyone being patched up at first but when I made sure we all had .14 or .17 installed I still kept getting them. Not every turn mind you but often enough that I ignore the messages now.

Thanks guys. My other opponent's file didn't contain this message. I've seen some crazy ways people try to take advantage of their knowledge of programming to help their game results so I'm not buying that everyone is trustwothy, they're not. If I can find someone whose files don't contain this message, guess who I'm playing against?

Dunnoo...I have three games with III going and I've never seen the message. Although, I have noticed a tendency for III to freeze when making .sals. I've had it freeze twice. In both cases, the game froze, but still some how managed to produce an .sal. I had to kill III from the task manager. If it freezes and leaves you without a save file, then you will get the message having to reopen an old save.

I believe we're getting some false positives from people reviewing their previous saved games from the end of the turns (or possibly even mid-turn saves). Getting this fixed is a priority, as soon as Ralph is back in the saddle...

Well I may as well say that I'm Mr. Macgregor's opponent. I think the reason he is getting this message is that I have been having some problems with TOAW III freezing on my computer before I start the turn proper, so am occasionaly having to restart the game and reload, that could be the cause. Which is a problem if all of my opponents are going to think I'm cheating.
 
I'm also getting a .EVENT ERRORS text file in my saves folder concerning this scenario, not sure if that could be the cause?

I don't see how you can make a program cheat proof ... without messing with some of the functionality like somebody above mentioned.  I think a good group of gamers like ToaW'ers, or BiN'ers, or PzC'ers have to police their own.  If you're caught proved to be cheating ... you're banned from ladder play.   ... or something like that.
 
I know SSG's anti cheat measures have made it less user friendly imho.  (with BiN and KP you had to play the game on the computer you started the game on when playing in secure mode ... that causes some problems if a 'puter crashes ... or you have to travel and want to play on your laptop, but started the game on your home puter ... etc etc.)
 
just another 2 cents
 
by the way, i get moves also quite frequently with the restart message ... i can't tell its helping my opponents

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

I believe we're getting some false positives from people reviewing their previous saved games from the end of the turns (or possibly even mid-turn saves). Getting this fixed is a priority, as soon as Ralph is back in the saddle...

..try scrapping it, nice idea and all that buttttttt......

..i get a lot of brown-outs so i save frequently, even so, one power down and i have to reload from the save, and so generate the message..

..or there was the time i forgot which save was the latest (a bad night with baby) so reloaded from an earlier one, same following move but again, that message..

There's a way to cheat-proof this part of the game but it would slow PBEM down to a crawl. When a player is done moving the engine resolves combat but does not display any results. The file must be sent to his opponent who will view the playback and return the file without any further action. The original player then views the results of his last round and proceeds to the next round. So by the time a player sees the results it is too late to change them.
 
It wouldn't affect the other cheats but it would solve the issue of replaying the turn until you get a result you like.

ORIGINAL: Raindem

There's a way to cheat-proof this part of the game but it would slow PBEM down to a crawl.

Quite. Cheat-proofing the game will remove so much functionality that it's not worth it.

Question: does it constitute cheating if you attempt to disengage a unit, it is routed, so you hit the "go back" button. I feel highly conflicted about this issue, because I'm not aware of any way to ascertain the level of engagement a unit is experiencing, and thus, no way to know if a unit has the ability to retreat successfully or not, without trying to retreat. This does not seem realistic to me. It seems to me that, at the operational level (though perhaps not at the squad or platoon level) a unit would have some sense of whether or not it was pinned down by nearby enemy units or not.

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Question: does it constitute cheating if you attempt to disengage a unit, it is routed, so you hit the "go back" button. I feel highly conflicted about this issue, because I'm not aware of any way to ascertain the level of engagement a unit is experiencing, and thus, no way to know if a unit has the ability to retreat successfully or not, without trying to retreat. This does not seem realistic to me. It seems to me that, at the operational level (though perhaps not at the squad or platoon level) a unit would have some sense of whether or not it was pinned down by nearby enemy units or not.

Yes, it is cheating (if you're playing another human). If you're playing on your own, then anything goes. You could consider it an "educational experience" then...[;)]

The "sense" that you have as to whether a unit will be pinned down, relies on your experience with the game, and the knowledge you have of the battlefield particulars. For example, relative sizes of your units, are you retreating through consecutive ezoc's, relative recon strengths of the units involved, support assets within range that can bombard the retreating unit, etc. You need to develop that sense by playing and doing, and sometimes failing.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Question: does it constitute cheating if you attempt to disengage a unit, it is routed, so you hit the "go back" button. I feel highly conflicted about this issue, because I'm not aware of any way to ascertain the level of engagement a unit is experiencing, and thus, no way to know if a unit has the ability to retreat successfully or not, without trying to retreat. This does not seem realistic to me. It seems to me that, at the operational level (though perhaps not at the squad or platoon level) a unit would have some sense of whether or not it was pinned down by nearby enemy units or not.

Yes, it is cheating (if you're playing another human). If you're playing on your own, then anything goes. You could consider it an "educational experience" then...[;)]

The "sense" that you have as to whether a unit will be pinned down, relies on your experience with the game, and the knowledge you have of the battlefield particulars. For example, relative sizes of your units, are you retreating through consecutive ezoc's, relative recon strengths of the units involved, support assets within range that can bombard the retreating unit, etc. You need to develop that sense by playing and doing, and sometimes failing.

Doh! Well you gotta give me credit for being honest enough to ask!